Should the church marry these two?

blackbird sez:

I Am Blessed 16 sez:

All you preachers on board take note. These comments are a full fledged sermon topic that fits today's society!

 

Somebody in the church----can get their hands on a camper trailer----a "pop-up" or even a tent for that matter! The pastor can make arrangements at the local YMCA or Salvation Army---somebody in the church has to have a "Basement House" or a Garage/Attic house----exhaust your sources---then exhaust them some more---if every avenue of sources fail at your church----get the pastor to call his pastor friends----somebody has a deer camp or a fishing lodge they aren't using----the reason there seems to not be a convient place for the fella and his kids to stay for a week---is that he ain't tryin' hard enough to find one---"Shackin' up" is a whole lot easier for the ones in question and for the church members to say "Well! What can it hurt---they've gone this far---they might as well . . .!"

See??

 

I would be 100% with you all if you could establish that:

A. Sleeping on the couch is a sin.

B. Sleeping on the couch will endanger their eternal salvation.

What do these people have to do to prove their sincerity? Jump through flaming hoops??

Salvation is not through mankind; it is a gift from God. The system is faith alone, not faith plus fulfilling our every whim.

Can we expect the man to sleep on the sofa?

YES, WE CAN. If he has truly repented, he will seek to obey, so he would sleep on the couch. If he has not repented, then let God judge him for his sin.

We must remember that these two are babes in Christ. It would serve us well to have a spirit of mercy in all this.

 

StefanM Sez:

Having a spirit of mercy does not equate to ignoring the natural tendency of mans/womans desire for each other! This is equivalent to telling the just reformed alcoholic to just ignore the 5th of Jack Daniels on the table beside his bed.

After-all, Jesus had mercy on the adultress, but He also told her to "go and sin no more". Now I may just be reading something into what He said, but in my mind the admonition was to AVOID any circumstance that may lead to a repetition of the sin.

 

Avoiding the circumstance = sleeping on the couch, not in the bed

What are they supposed to do? Not even see each other before the wedding? I suppose that would be the only way truly to avoid a situation that "may lead to a repetition."

We have to trust that these people have at least an inkling of self-control!

 

So far---Debby has admitted that these fellas do not----and I repeat---do not have one inkling of self-control!!

Self control is getting your self out----

 

Someone said to remember - these people are 'just' baby Christians. This is true, but they already know what they are doing is wrong or they wouldn't be getting married at all. That being the case, they know that they should live separately before the wedding.

I am VERY surprised that the pastor did not tell them they needed to live apart until he married them.

I believe we are told in the Bible to "flee temptation". Sleeping on the couch is NOT fleeing anything. It is asking for trouble. Satan will make sure there is plenty of temptation around. He doesn't care if we get saved. He only cares when we start living for God!

I remember how 'clean' I felt when I got saved. Why would these people want to sully this by continuing to live in sin?

I understand these people are wanting to do right. It will be much easier for them to do right if they are living separate. "Lead us not into temptation".

It is NEVER right - to do wrong - to do right...

 

Give 'um a break--since they are "babes in Christ??" Give me a break!!

Would you let a two year old get behind the wheel of a race car---or your car----or any car??? He's no more ready to drive than the "Man in the Moon!"

Its best to put "babes" in Christ in a restrainer---reckon??

 

You all make a valid point, but if church insisted that they live apart, it could create significant financial hardship. Therefore, the church should house the man until the wedding.

 

I'd point out that marriage ceremonies are for BEFORE one is married, not after.
Now, if they were living together and didn't have an intention to stay together forever that was wrong, but apparently they recognize that and now want a forever commitment. You don't need a pastor or a government official to make that a valid commitment in God's eyes.
They live together and have made a commitment to stay together. They're married. If they want to validate that in front of others with a marriage ceremony then why would you think they shouldn't?
If they simply want to have the commitment documented for tax and legal and other government purposes, they can save the expense and time and go to the government for that piece of government paper that will give them those benefits.
Gina

 

Gina---you say they "live together and have made a commitment to stay together. They're married."

That's not marriage---thats adultery!!

Blackbird

 

Here's What I was confronted with recently.

Guy calls the church office and tells me he'd like to talk to me about getting married. We set a time for him and his fiance to come in.

The couple comes in. They are unbelievers. They've been living together for five years and want to get married. They know it's the right thing to do. Would I consider coming to their home and marrying them on a Saturday?

Hmmm. Here I have lost people contacting the church about a spiritual matter (marriage), what should I do?

a. Read them the Riot Act about their Sinful Lifestyle and kick them out of my office.

b. Witness to them and tell them if they'll accept Jesus and seperate for an acceptable time then I'll think about marrying them.

c. Commend them for being serious about marriage when the world is tearing down the sacred institution, witness to them, (leaving the results to the Holy Spirit), pray with them and agree to marry them on the appointed Saturday at their home with all their lost friends and family present.

Wonder what Jesus would have done?

 

Go and sin no more---is that a good start??

 

Dear Hardsheller,
I would think in that case, since they are unbelievers, you just go ahead and marry them. More would be expected out of two new Christians.

Karen

 

Dear Gina,
I would have to agree with blackbird. In the scenario you present, they are not married.

Karen

 

Blackbird, will you please show what marriage is from the Bible? Nobody has been willing to do this in the past, and as much as I like everyone here, I'm not willing to take their word for it.
Gina

 

I will not Marry any person or persons who are unbelievers. Marriage is a covenant between a man, woman and God. If a person is a unbeliever their marriage would be on shaky ground and they would be raising their children without spiritual guidance. The Church is used and abused by so many to be their private marriage chapel.

In short I will not marry
1. Unconverted people
2. Unequally yoked couple (Christian marrying non Christian)
3. Divorced people (I mean this as not as an offense and I do believe there is a case for remarriage for some but given the current moral crisis I do not feel comfortable marrying divorced people)
4. Unfaithfull Church members

I will marry those who are Christians and are active in their local church.

 

Its not so complicated as it seems, Gina! In the book of Romans Chapter 13 speaks of governmental powers which ordain laws of men---and according to the laws of men---marriage is not recognized without a civil union called a marriage license---when I marry someone---I fill out the information asked for and mail it into the County Clerk's office---where it is put on file---if man does not recognize legal marriage without a license---reckon why it would be so that God would??

 

In that case, what's your problem with not recognizing gay marriages if the government establishes it as recognizable by authorities? Or abortion, if the government says it's ok?
It's going to be a problem to try to say we recognize governmental authority as the right thing to obey and then make exceptions for the ones we don't like. There is no clause in Romans that says "unless they're wrong", is there?
Gina