Should the US Ban the Flag in the Classroom?

[Aaron]

And America is an earthly kingdom. We serve a higher throne.

We serve a throne that commands us to render fear and honor unto them to whom it is due, i.e., allegiance.

 

[jaigner]

We serve a throne that commands us to render fear and honor unto them to whom it is due, i.e., allegiance.

Not exactly.

We're commanded to live under the law of the land when not in violation of our Christian faith or conscience.

In any event, I am in no way obligated to say a pledge of any allegiance.

Especially problematic is the "under God" part. This nation has never been under God, and the clause was imposed around 175 years into its history.

I enjoy the benefit of living here. I'm not going to commit any crime against the nation, treason or anything else.

I'm just not comfortable pledging my allegiance, especially not out of some misplaced nationalism, to a kingdom other than Christ's.

 

[Aaron]

The Pledge of Allegiance is nothing like swearing blind devotion to a king or a God. (God doesn't even ask for blind devotion.) It is nothing more than the reasonable, lawful and natural expectation of honor that any nation has of its citizens.

And all nations are under God, but this one from it's foundations has recognized that fact in its political discourses, charters and constitutions. To say "it's never been under God" is not to debate the facts, but your leftist philosophy.

 

[jaigner]

The Pledge of Allegiance is nothing like swearing blind devotion to a king or a God. (God doesn't even ask for blind devotion.) It is nothing more than the reasonable, lawful and natural expectation of honor that any nation has of its citizens.

And all nations are under God, but this one from it's foundations has recognized that fact in its political discourses, charters and constitutions. To say "it's never been under God" is not to debate the facts, but your leftist philosophy.

Well, okay then. No room for discussion. You can just call me a liberal, even though I'm not, and that's it. Because of course you're right. As a really, really good Christian, you can be sure of it.

But that's not the way it works. Kingdoms of the earth are Satan's domain until the day of Christ. This isn't leftist philosophy, it's my personal conviction that I came to through much prayer and study.

Let me save you some time. You'll probably come back with one another brief remark that slams shut the door of good discussion as if you're right and I'm wrong, and a stupid, ignorant, unstudied liberal at that, and you're just here to educate me with your superiority.

I hope you don't talk to non-believers this way.

 

[David Lamb]

No, I'm not saying everyone is a Christian. I'm saying every American citizen is (supposed to be) his own sovereign under God and may govern his own worship. We call it liberty.

So no President (or POTUS, as I've seen him called on the BB), no Congress, no pastors, no police, no judiciary? I am having difficulty seeing how this could possibly work in practise. Surely somebody has to curtail American drivers' liberty by saying, "You must drive on the right-hand side of the road," and Americans do not have the liberty to set themselves up as medical practioners without the necessary training and qualifications? It is not God who says, "You must drive on the right-hand side of the road." (I agree it is God who determines, in His Word, how He should be worshipped).

You didn't answer my question, "Can you back this up with scripture?" That is not a criticism; you may just have overlooked it.

 

[Robert Snow]

Well, okay then. No room for discussion. You can just call me a liberal...

Aaron takes some getting used to. He, like others who almost exclusively post in the News and Politics forums (Carpro, Bro. Curtis, etc.) say things that are extreme. It draws attention to their supposed higher conservative standards than us mortals. It reminds me of a Puffer fish. The appear to be huge when confronted by an enemy, but in reality, it's mainly just show.

 

[jaigner]

Aaron takes some getting used to. He, like others who almost exclusively post in the News and Politics forums (Carpro, Bro. Curtis, etc.) say things that are extreme. It draws attention to their supposed higher conservative standards than us mortals. It reminds me of a Puffer fish. The appear to be huge when confronted by an enemy, but in reality, it's mainly just show.

Yeah, but still, it's like these folks have never been taught how to graciously engage other Christians in debate and discussion. They're bowing at the altar of Hannity and Beck, I guess.

It's just disturbing.

But what do I know? Since I don't agree with them, I'm just a liberal.

 

[Aaron]

So no President (or POTUS, as I've seen him called on the BB), no Congress, no pastors, no police, no judiciary?

Who said that? What it means is that all men are equal under the law*. No one is addressed as "my Lord," because no man is another's lord.

It means that no one may govern without the consent of the governed. The governed are the seat of power, that's why we have the guns, and that's why we have states with their own constitutions and legislatures, and further down we have counties, cities and townships, all with their own elected officials for making the local rules.

To be a king does not mean that one can behave unlawfully, and usurp the property and privileges of another. It simply means a man is the master of his own domain.

I am having difficulty seeing how this could possibly work in practise.

You should read up on a constitutional republic. America was the first one in history.

It is not God who says, "You must drive on the right-hand side of the road."

It's not the President or any governor, either. It's a body of elected officials, who are servants of the kings, the people. but you've hit on an interesting example. The rules of the road are designed to facilitate travel. To make it safe and efficient. It's the rule that makes us as free as possible to travel. And God is the One who said, Thou shalt not kill.

That's what true law does. Liberty is not the absence of law, but the facilitation those who behave morally. And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts, Ps 119:45. It sets a man free to be the head of his house, to raise and train his children and to provide for their needs. It sets a man free to work, and to reap the fruits of his labor.

It sets a man free to preach.

You didn't answer my question, "Can you back this up with scripture?" That is not a criticism; you may just have overlooked it.

Can I back up what? My own observation of the working out of American politics? No, but neither can I back up with Scripture the fact that David Lamb's avatar is a photo of a bespectacled older gentleman. I could borrow some Scriptural phraseology to describe your need to were glasses and say, your windows are darkened. That's all I did when I said that America was a nation of kings and priests. It's a perfect description of the working out of American government.

Granted, in these last few decades we've become more of a socialist state, but that's not the way it's supposed to be.

*Law here means Natural Law

 

[Aaron]

But that's not the way it works. Kingdoms of the earth are Satan's domain until the day of Christ.

Scripturally, are magistrates ministers of God, or Satan?

 

[David Lamb]

Sorry, Aaron, I have obviously misunderstood your post. (My fault I am sure). I apologise.

 

[righteousdude2]

Hannity is Cool, Beck is . . .

. . . still taking time for me to get used to. Maybe I'll never get used to Beck, but, he loves the USA, and I give him a hand for that!

Hannity is right on...he rant a bit, but, he loves the country, and he is thoroughly disgusted with the same things I'm fed up with! :thumbs: