Should there be any limits to supporting Israel?

Joseph, while it is true that the Jewish people generally do not accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah, you also know it is true there are Messianic Jews. It is up to God to judge the heart of each person and I won't go there.

I believe in supporting the Nation of Israel and do not understand what you mean by "blank check of support to fill out in any manner that they wish." As far as genocide, we have a government that is accused of genocide by some, such as genocide of the Native American Indians. Do you support your US government? How far should our support to the US Government go? Do we support our government in everything our government does? Likewise, the Israeli people do not support their government in everything their government does.

The confusion comes from combining the spiritual condition of the Nation of Israel (rejection of Messiah) to the physical (God's Chosen People). The two are not interchangeable right now, although according to the Bible, one day they will once again be a true theocracy when God opens their eyes from the spiritual blindness He caused them to have.

For those who say the Church has replaced the Jews (replacement theology), we must remember that Israel (the Nation) is the Wife of Jehovah. The Church is the Bride of Christ.

More later.

 

Joseph, I am not sure why this thread seems so adversarial. In restating others positions you seem to put a lot of words in their mouths (or sometimes too few) to slant the view they are expressing.

So - to keep it on topic - No.

 

I don't believe present day Israel is God's chosen nation but only those who have the Faith of Abraham and that would be Church. I do believe that Romans 11 is clear God has not forsaken the Jews and that a end times revival will occur among them but I do not buy into the John Haggee view of Israel. God has only one Chosen people and that is the Church which is made up of all races.

I believe Israel has a right to the land they occupy and think they have did more than their share in the peace process and I support their current war against Hamas and Hezbollah. That does not mean I give them blanket support no more than I would give the US government blanket support.

 

Joseph, now I confused myself. Your question in your last response to LadyEagle is worded the opposite of the OP. So let me clarify - I am not willing to give blanket support to Israel no matter what they do even though I am a premill dispie.

 

These are certainly interesting questions and I must admit to not having expended a lot of time mulling them over. The short answer - yes. And to oppose what is wrong is not the same as "cursing" them.

Certainly it is always right to not support a moral wrong. It does not matter who is involved - Israel or the Church. BTW, is it really possible to qualify a moral wrong by calling it an American view? If it is immoral, it is immoral. If it is ammoral (neither moral nor immoral), it is an opinion or a point of view.

By not supporting a moral wrong am I somehow cursing someone instead of blessing them? Certainly not. God's Word has always been very clear that we obey Him above others. When there is a conflict of obedience between the laws of God and the laws of man, we obey God first. Do we sin more that grace may abound all the more? God Forbid!

This also begs the question of what does it mean to "bless" or "curse" someone? You seem to assume that premill dispies believe that by disagreeing with a position Israel may take on an issue you are automatically "cursing" them. The only way to "bless" them is to agree with them. Some probably do - I, however, do not.

It could also be argued that by chastising Israel over moral lapses you are in reality blessing them by helping them live a more godly life instead of enabling their further disobedience to God which will only bring further judgment. Don't we take this same approach with our own children. Correction is the truly loving way of dealing with a disobedient child - not permissiveness.

Not sure this falls in line with other premill dispies or your view of premill dispies - but it is how I view the situation at the moment.

And, by the way, the church is not Israel. We are a chosen generation and a royal priesthood, but not the chosen people. As Paul points out in Romans, the Savior came from the Jews, not the gentiles. You even seem to agree with Kiffen that God is not finished with the nation of Israel yet. Why promise the Jews an end time revival and not other nations and races? Why speak of special protection for the Jews and not other nations? They are the chosen people whether they act like it or not. "If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray...." This is a promise to the Jews, not the church, to restore them to their land. Are they there yet? Perhaps not, but we're getting close! :thumbs:

 

No.

I support what they're doing against Hezbollah and Hamas, but not for any theological reasons.

 

KeithS, I agree with your very articulate reply.

So in short, Joseph, take what KeithS said and I'll second that motion. Sorry I wasn't nearly as articulate, but I tried.

 

I agree with this. I support the nation of Israel because they are our ally and the only true democracy in the region. I don't think the foreign policy of the US should be based on the religious beliefs of a few of our citizens.

 

Support of the state of Israel should be limited to the interests of the United States. To waste money on bringing peace between Israel and the bands of animals they have to fight is not a good use of American tax dollars. They will be fighting until the end of time. Money should be spent on helping Israel protect itself so long as it parallels the interests of the United States.

 

A few of our citizens? We believe that way because that is what God said in His Word. God gave Israel the Gaza Strip. No one had the right to take it away from them. The conflicts will be unendng.

I would have said Money should be spent on helping Israel to protect itself because God told us not to turn our backs on Israel.

We had BETTER support Israel, but more than that we need to be in deep prayer about what is going on over there right now.

 

Ditto - Clear enough for me!

 

Joseph,
Aren't you Jewish? Why do you look for ways to undermine Israel? The Jewish people have had the bad end of the stick almost since their beginning. Yes, sometimes at their own doing.

They deserve to defend themselves period and we should support them in their current circumstances unconditionally. They are right in what they are doing. Stop with all the "What ifs'. Israel is fighting with one hand tied behind it's back in order to please the "allies". I say they should kick Hezbollah's butt and if necessary, we should assist. Their battle with terrorisim is not so unlike our own!

 

Each and every one of the residents (notice most are not citizens) of Israel and Lebanon needs a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

I support Israel, but their problem is a direct result of their NOT BEING A TRUE DEMOCRACY and not being SUBMITTED TO GOD in His CHRIST.

The people that the Israelis are fighting in Lebanon are ISRAELI REFUGEES.

Israel forced them out of Palestine, decided that Palestinians were reproducing to quickly and they would soon out vote Jews, so they then decided to break up the west bank and gaza.

Their failed democracy has led to YEARS of fighting. Instead of band aids and sledge hammers - ISRAEL needs a solution. AND NOT THE FINAL SOLUTION that they learned from their former leader.

It is one thing to kill thousands of civilians in a 10 murdered for each one you murder, it is quite another issue to find a peaceful solution in a land where they have murdered each other for 1600 years.

Israel antiquities authority (i think that is the right organization) started denying permission to excavate old grave sites - because too many of the sites showed MARTYRED Christians (by the tens of thousands).

We need a SOLUTION and not the antichrist - he will be here soon with an evil solution.

Each and every one of the residents (notice most are not citizens) of Israel and Lebanon needs a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

Any solution other than JESUS is too short sighted.

IMHO