Should there be any limits to supporting Israel?

Advocating a futurist theology isn’t consistent which scripture, won’t get in to what I consider it. But I think it absurd to disregard the plain teaching of the promise extending to Jews and Gentile alike in one body in Christ. Gal 3:28-29.

Israel means “faithful” throughout history as the secular ethnic application is different than the redemptive context in scripture.

In the OT you can see this in the atonement, each year every sin was to be brought before the Lord with great care that none were missed. And what happened to any person that did not participate in the atonement, he was to be “cut off” from among his people. His heritage was lost, genetics was unimportant, it was belief and obedience that mattered. As a matter of fact a foreigner who believed became part of Israel while a Hebrew that didn’t ceased to be part of Israel. Sounds a bit like the pruning and grafting in Romans 11 doesn’t it? It should because Paul was discussing the same thing there.

(Lev 23:27) Also on the tenth day of this seventh month thereshallbe a day of atonement: it shall be a holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

(Lev 23:28) And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.

(Lev 23:29) For whatsoever soul itbe that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.

The futurist seems to overlook Paul’s term for all the saved being the “seeds of Abraham”, believers in faith, Israel meaning the “faithful”. The word “Jews” would not even extend to the saints from creation, does "Israel" refer to them?

The “seeds of Abraham” are seen in Romans 11 being brought together in the promise. Note the cutting off in v22 hasn’t changed either pertaining to obedience, same promise-different ministry, no fundamental difference between the NT and the OT; the fundamental difference between the New Covenant and the Old is it is written in our hearts.

(Rom 11:16) For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

(Rom 11:17) And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

(Rom 11:18) Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

(Rom 11:19) Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

(Rom 11:20) Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

(Rom 11:21) For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

(Rom 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

(Rom 11:23) And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

(Rom 11:24) For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

(Rom 11:25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

(Rom 11:26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

(Rom 11:27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

Amen, Brother DHK --Preach it! :thumbsup:

God keeps ALL His promises!
If God can't keep His promises to Yisrael,
then He is no god at all.
God keeps ALL His promises!

 

Your premise is still absurd. Look at history:

1 Kings 18:21-22 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word. Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.
--Elijah challenged the entire nation of Israel who had gone a "whoring" after the god "Baal" But they were still the nation of Israel, the sons of Jacob, the chosen people of God. Nothing could change that fact though they fell away. God kept chastening them and bringing them back to Himself.

What god were they serving when they were dancing around a golden calf naked? Moses was in the mount receiving the Ten Commandments from God. It wasn't Jehovah that they were serving, and yet they were still the nation of Israel.

Read the book of Judges. God raised up judges for the express purpose of bringing Israel back from their idolatry of serving other gods. They forsook the worship of Jehovah, went and served other gods, and thus Jehovah raised up Judges to deliver them from bondage and bring them back to worship Jehovah once again.

Your premise is false. All throughout the Old Testament, Israel has always Israel whether or not they were faithful. This is a testament to OSAS. They were always in the family. God would never forsake them. Though they were unfaithful; God's promise was to remain faithful, and so He was.

You have a misunderstanding of salvation. The Day of Atonement was a picture of salvation.

Hebrews 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
Hebrews 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

It has nothing to do with genetics, nor with faithfulness. The nation of Israel was a nation called out of God to serve him. Sometimes they were unfaithful, but they were still God's peopel.
The Day of Atonement is done away. It was a picture. Christ did away with that sacrifice at the cross being sacrificed once for all. He took all of our sins away forever. Those that believe in him become part of his family, are a nation called out by Him. Sometimes we are unfaithful, but we will never lose our salvation because of unfaithfulness, just like the Israelites. God remains faithful--always.

No, of course not. And no one is suggesting that. The time period is the Tribulation Period. God promises all throughout the Old Testament to preserve a "remnant" for "David's sake." Thus a 'remnat' will be saved. That is the remnant that is in the Tribulation period, those that will be alive at that time. All those alive at that time will recognize that Christ is their Messiah, and will as a nation turn to Him. Is that so hard to understand?

In this day and age of grace not every Gentile has believed, and not every Jew has believed. But every Jew and every Gentile has the opportunity to believe. The offer of the Kingdom is not being given to the Jews at this time. The offer of salvation through Christ is. At this time salvation is only through Christ to both Jew and Gentile. There is only one way to heaven and that is by faith in Christ.

I don't have time to go through every verse with you. But it is obvious that both Israel and the Gentiles exist side by side and will both now, through the Tribulation, through the Millennial Kingdom and on through eternity. The only difference now is that when a Jew becomes saved he becomes a Christian. Whe a Gentile becomes saved he becomes a Christian. During this age: both Jew and Gentile we are all one in Christ.
DHK

 

As Brother Ed would say----"Amen Brother DHK, Preach It!":thumbs:

Bro Tony

 

No its not, but I guess it makes you feel better keep repeating it.

Not really concerned with what you think is heretical.

Of course John says this was fulfilled at the Cross, but lets not let scripture get in the way of our eschatology.

Joh 19:36 For these things came to pass, that the scripture might be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
Joh 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.


So I guess you believe the Jews today still have Jesus’ blood on their hands.

I wonder if you weren’t a moderator if you could get by with this. But this is typical of those who cheer on war in the Middle East. I guess you think they are helping out God fulfill His prophecies.

Your hatefilled statement is exactly the point Joseph is making with this thread. Your eschatology drives your foriegn policy. Someday you will get your wish and have your "armeggedon", but it will be a war brought on by dispie zionist, not because of Biblical prophecy. When it's all over, perhaps we can adress the subject again with a little more scripture and a little less Jack VanImpe.

Really? Jews have always existed?

I guess you subscribe to the theory that if a lie is repeated enough it will be believed.

It seems “replacement theology” is one that states the Church has temporarily replaced Israel, but one day Israel will replace the Church and once again be the focus of God’s attention. That is “replacement theology”.

Perhaps you would like to answer the questions LE could not:

1. You never answered my question, do the statements of Jesus in Matt 23 and Rev. 2:9 and 3:9 still apply to the Jews today? If not, why not.

2. So are you telling me the people in modern Israel can trace their bloodline back to the OT? Are you also telling me their has been no dilution of the bloodline since their dispersion in AD70?

3. So anyone who is a descendant of people who converted to Judaism do not count. What about all those who married into Israel in the OT and their descendants? What about the proselytes? Just how much Jewish blood does it take? 100%? 50%? Just a trace?

4. Are they still the synagogue of Satan?

Rev 2:9 I know your works and tribulation and poverty (but you are rich), and I know the blasphemy of those saying themselves to be Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 3:9 Behold, I give out of those of the synagogue of Satan, those saying themselves to be Jews and are not, but lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

5. Are they still the offspring of vipers?

Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?

 

Zech.14

[1] Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
[2] For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
[3] Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
[4] And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
[5] And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
[6] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
[7] But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
[8] And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
[9] And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
[10] All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
[11] And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
[12] And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

I did answer you. For the record, here is my answer in plain language: You are proof texting, pulling out verses of Scripture to align with your personal beliefs, instead of aligning your beliefs with Scripture.

Very simply, you are wrong.

 

I meant to add: :flower:

 

That is precisely what premillennialists, especially the dispensationalist brand, do.

 

Al Quaida was just on TV via a tape and he is joining forces with Lebanon against Israel.

That's just one MORE good reason to be on Israel's side. I certainly don't want to be aligned with Al Qaida!

Do you?

 

This is the problem, everyone assumes that if you oppose dispensationalism you are by nature anti-Israel and pro Al Quaida. There are many reasons to support Israel, and at times, criticize Israel, but for some of us it is not based on eschatology or the redicoulous belief that modern Israel is the same Israel of Abraham.

LE, you answer nothing.

 

Zawahri and bin Laden are pretty much reduced to blowhard status nowadays. I doubt that they have any operational input with al Qaeda any more.

I support Israel, just not for eschatological reasons. I hope that they wipe Hezbollah and Hamas off the face of the earth.

 

Sorry Ken, that is not allowable in the dispie world. You must support Israel for eschatological reasons otherwise you are a heretic.

 

I keep repeating "Jesus saves!" because it is the truth. I take delight in proclaiming the truth of God's Word.

I am not concerned with what I think either. But I am concerned with what the Word of God says. Here is a verse you cannot argue with:

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
--This is not my opinion. It is God's truth as spoken by Paul. There are three groups of people in this age, one of which is the Jews. You can believe the Bible or deny it. The choice is yours.

John never said that Christ came for nation of Israel when He died on the cross. In this you greatly err. Or you deliberately misconstrue what I said. Which do you do? Are you in error, or are you deliberately misconstruing my words (there is a more ugly word for that). What did John say Christ?

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John wrote more about the last days and death of Christ more than any other gospel writer. These are written that you might beleive that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you might have life through his name. This book was not written with Jews in mind. When he came the first time, and died the first time, he died for the sins of the world--not simply the Jews. If it was only for the Jews you could not be saved.

And so they did look upon the one that they had pierced. But they did not mourn.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
--Can you truthfully say that this Scripture has been fulfilled. Did the nation of Israel see Christ come in the clouds?
Did every eye see him?
They also which pierced him (Israel)?
Did not only Israel mourn (wail), but also all the nations of the earth wail for him?
Have these events taken place. If so when? Please explain.

Yes they do, and so do you if you have rejected Christ as your Saviuor. It is your sin that he died for as much as the Jews. Your sin that put him on the cross as much as the Jews. If you were the only one on the face of this earth, Christ loved you enough to come and die just for you. God is a God of love.

That was a challenge, but said tongue in cheek. How could the Hezbollah fight against something that doesn't exist. Your argument is ridiculous. You claim that Israel no longer exists. Incredible! Then is Hezbollah fighting against the wind??? Please explain yourself. There is a nation over there called Israel, and everyone but you knows that. You seem to be in denial.

I am not the one spreading hate on this board. Christ died for you, and he died for the Jews. Paul went to the Jew first and also to the Greek (the Gentiles) [Romans 1:16]. How can you deny these things? My eschatology has nothing to do with my foreign policy. I don't make foreign policy. In case you haven't noticed I stay out of the politics forum, so you have no idea what I believe politically? Your "hate-filled" post assumes that I have taken a postion one way or another when I haven't said a thing about politics.
I never spoke a word about armegeddon. Why all the false allegations. The Bible does speak about armeggeddon. It uses the very word. Thus there will be one. I don't see how you can deny that. But again, I have said nothing specific about it.
I have said nothing about "zionists" or any such movement. Why are you accusing me of such things. Perhaps I should take your false allegations and accusations up with the administrative board, don't you think. In the future stick with the subject!! If you don't know what I have said, then quote me.

Yes! From the time of Abraham until now Jews have existed. Can you prove otherwise?

I resent being called a liar GH. This is a warning.

No, The Bible teaches that God has set aside Israel. Israel still exists. If Israel had been replaced there would be no Israel to be the focus of God's attention in the future. That is why Israel has been set aside, not replaced. Israel still exists, she just has been set aside for a temporary period of time. The difference is more than just semantics. Islam is fighting to drive Israel into the sea and into extinction. Will they succceed? No! Christ will come back before that. The Book of Revelation describes his coming in all of his glory, and it describes his defence of Israel, and the defeat of Israel's enemies. Israel has not been replaced; only set aside for a temporary period of time.
DHK

 

You will have to be more specific.

Perhaps they can't. But the Lord can. Why should I worry about something that the Lord has promised to do. O ye of little faith! You don't believe in the promises of God? So you disbelieve the Bible instead.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

I want you to think about something while you think about "pure blood-lines."
A pure blood-line would be one that goes back to Abraham or to the twelve tribes. Both Ruth and Rahab are in the geneaology of Christ, so then Christ does not have a pure blood line, and neither does David. Ruth was a Moabite, and Rahab was a Canaanite. The bloodline was "poisoned" right then and there, way back before David even came to the throne. But God overlooks some things doesn't He.
The Lord knows them that are His.
And in the Tribulation Period he will seal 144,000 Israelites, 12,000 from each tribe. It is not my business to find out or to know where these ones will come from. I believe the Bible. And I know that God keeps His promises. If that is not good enough for you, I feel sorry for you.

See my previous answer and then ask God for an answer to the rest of your question. "When I come shall I find faith on the earth?"

Now you are using terms that described a church in the New Testament era, in fact a specific church in the Book of Revelation, that existed in the first century that has nothing to do with this day. If you want to discuss "the synagogue of Satan," then open another thread. It has nothing to do with this thread.
Furthermore, it is not your business to call anyone the offspring of vipers. Would you like it if I called you that?
DHK

 

You may assume that “Israel” refers to ethnic Jews as the Bible in large part was written by the Jews and the OT is clearly a Jewish history and it appeals to your theology but any student can come up with several definitions for “Israel” and the legitimate definition can be seen in the root of the name. Salvation is of faith, always has been.

Abraham would be surprised to find out his faith wasn’t accounted to him for righteousness.

God’s people are the Church of believers.

They were saved by the indwelling of the HS, being obedient in faith; the sacrifices were only signifying that they believed, the sacrifices did not even make them perfect in their conscience, faith did and God looked at the heart.

(Eze 18:31) Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?



I’m glad you’re agreeing that it had nothing to do with genetics? because that is clear as seen in God’s plan from the foundation of the world that all Israel meaning a nation not of blood but the Church of believers will be saved. Salvation is and always has been by faith in what God has revealed to us to believe. The nation of Israel are the “seeds of Abraham” they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham, (Gal 3:7) and it was through the promise given to Abraham that the faithful inherited the promise. The picture was a mystery to them, but the sacrifice of bulls and goats never did save them, their faith did, they were never even perfect in their sacrifices and God did not look at those works for salvation, He looked at the heart.

God is not a respecter of persons and the inheritance of the promise was not a matter of pedigree, never was. The revelation to the Jews regarding this false premise of privileged pedigree is something that John the Baptist straightened them out on.

(Mat 3:9) And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

An axe was laid to the roots of belief in that family tree for salvation.

The children (seeds) of Abraham are heirs of the same promise made to the father of faith; it was never a matter of blood:

(Heb 11:9) By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

These guys were fellow heirs of the promise with Abraham by faith, not of blood. It seems more than significant that the promise was NOT that Abraham was to be the father of a bloodline but of a nation. Israel started out and remains the church.

 

Now, I expect that from an Okie but from a fellow Zonie! You're not a native are you?

 

You have no argument from me that salvation is by faith (both in Old and in New Testaments). I just finished explaining that on another thread. Salvation is by faith: thus the need for the Day of Atonement, that by faith in the sacrificial blood their sins would be forgiven. "For without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins."
During the darkest ages of the history of Israel God never left himself without a witness. We can see this in two different eras:
1. King Ahab was the most wicked king that ever lived, and no doubt Jezebel his wife, the most wicked queen. What a lovely couple they made. At that time all Israel went a whoring after Baal. What did Elijah do? He called the nation up to Mount Gerizim and challenged them: If Baal be god then serve him; If Jehovah be God then serve Him. He said how long do ye halt between two opinions? And then we have the dramatic story of Elijah calling down fire from heaven.
After that Elijah single-handedly killed 450 prophets of Baal.
Then, that wicked Queen Jezebel threatened to kill Elijah, and what did he do?
He went and sat under a tree and threw a pity party. He said that he was the only one that stood for Jehovah, that no one else served him. 'Why me Lord?' He complained. The Lord answered him:

1 Kings 19:9-10 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah? And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

1 Kings 19:18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.
--Elijah was not the only one. God had left 7,000 in Israel that had not bowed down to Baal, but were stil faithful to Jehovah.
In every age God has not left himself without a witness. That is a timeless truth. It was true in the Old Testament and is true in the New. He never leaves himself without a witness.

2. Another dark age was in the age of the Judges. The darkest time of the rule of the Judges was near the end of the Book, where it says:

Judges 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
--Every man did that which was right in his own eyes. There was a time of terrible wickedness. Read the preceding three chapters or so. See how wicked they were. A man chops up his wife and sends one piece of her to each of the twelve tribes of Israel? There was wickedness in Israel.
Immediately following is the Book of Ruth which has its historical setting during the time of the Judges. God gives us this beautiful picture to show that all is not bad. There were some families of believers even during that time that still served the Lord. Naomi was one such individual, and Ruth, a proselyte was another. Such a Godly perosn did Ruth become, that although a Moabite, she is in the ancestry of Christ.
--God never leaves himself without a witness.

You have made my point precisely. God promised to leave a remnant always for David's sake. Don't you believe in God's promises?

In the Old Testament???
In the New Testament those who trusted Christ, both Jews and Gentiles are God's people. But they do not replace the nation of Israel. Read Romans 11. God specifically says that He has set them aside. To set aside is far different than to replace. Perhaps you had better look these words up in a dictionary.

Show me the doctrine of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament. You refer to the Day of Atonement. Old Testament believers, the nation of Israel, had no indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They were saved by faith, yes, but not by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That event happened at Pentecost.

It is a matter of pedigree. And it is a matter of faith. It is both.
There remains to this day a nation called the nation of Israel, who wait and watch for their Messiah, who will come for them. They as a nation will be saved. They were not saved in the past, but as a nation will be saved.
The Jews at the time of Israel were watching and waiting for a Messiah. Were Peter and John not Jews because they had not yet believed on the Messiah. They were waiting and anticipating the Messiah. When He did come they believed on Him. Others are still (in faith) awaiting His coming. They are Jews. You cannot separate the two.
Was Jesus a Jew? Yes he was, as was John the Baptist. You cannot deny pedigree. If you do, you may as well deny Christ. He was not white with blue eyes. Sorry to disappoint you. There is race involved here. If your replacement theology leads you to an anti-semitic theology then I feel sorry for you. Does it also lead you to an anti-Islamic theology. Are you the elect and the whole world will go to Hell whether they be Jew, Islamic or otherwise. Replacement Theology teaches logically that Islam will replace Christianity. Are you going to carry it that far? Ask a few Islamic leaders what their goals are. Do they intend to rule the world some day? Do they want to replace Christianity? Do they want to become the one world religion in this world? Yes, they believe in replacement theology. Yes, they are very anti-semitic, and anti-Christian, in spite of what they say. Why else would the U.S. be labeled as "The Great Satan?" It must be destroyed, obliterated, "replaced." It's too bad you belive in replacement theology. It has a terrible end. It is a heretical theology.
DHK

 

How simple is that? David, in Psalm 51:11 implores God not to take the HS from him, implying that he had the indwelling.

Isaiah (63:10-11) implies that the HS was indwelling the Israelites in the exodus.

(Isa 63:10) But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

(Isa 63:11) Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his Holy Spirit within him?

It baffles me how you guys must think the OT people were saved and the disregard for the ministration of the HS, but whatever, I have no desire to pursue this debate here in detail.

Obviously this is not going to be settled here and I am not going to defend myself against your accusatory tactics of trying to lump me into “replacement theology”. The old if you don’t believe in my dispy theology, I will lump you into a group that you must believe this and that used as a smoke screen and call this strawman a heretical theology directed to me is nothing but offensive and what I consider a dishonest and desperate way of debate. No doubt I could rip into accusatory heresies of hyper-dispensationalism along with its roots and dangers but what’s the purpose other than tit for tat.

 

When did “this age“ begin?

At the time Paul wrote this, yes there were. Are you saying they are 3 separate groups? Who makes up the Church of God?

Paul also said this:

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I never said this..

Are the “last days” John speaks of the same “last days” the writer of Hebrews spoke of?

Did I say any different?

Gentiles can be saved because Amos 9 is fulfilled:

Amo 9:11 In that day I will raise up the booth of David that has fallen, and close up its breaks; and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old;
Amo 9:12 so that they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the nations on whom My name is called, says Jehovah who is doing this.

Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Perhaps you could start a separate thread on this subject, for now I would agree with Adam Clarke:


Rev 1:7 -
Behold, he cometh with clouds - This relates to his coming to execute judgment on the enemies of his religion; perhaps to his coming to destroy Jerusalem, as he was to be particularly manifested to them that pierced him, which must mean the incredulous and rebellious Jews.
And all kindreds of the earth - Πασαι αἱ φυλαι της γης· All the tribes of the land. By this the Jewish people are most evidently intended, and therefore the whole verse may be understood as predicting the destruction of the Jews; and is a presumptive proof that the Apocalypse was written before the final overthrow of the Jewish state.

By the way, you quoted Zech 21:10. not Rev 1:7.

Yet it is only the apostate Old Covenant Jews that Jesus and Paul blame for the killing of Jesus. Why did Paul never blame the Romans or all men? Only the Jews?