Should We Forget as Well as Forgive?

[mcdirector]

Part of our problem is that we equate forgiveness with trust. Forgiveness is a gift, trust is earned.

Exactly! I can forgive the snake for the first bite, but I'm not going to stick my hand into the pit again.

On the forgiveness without repentance part that MK brought up, if repentance does not occur, then the forgiveness is for me so that I can move on and be healthy.

 

[freeatlast]

I did not see an answer in the poll I felt that I could check. First we have to understand forgiveness. Forgiveness is not something we have to do over and over. If it is done as the Lord calls for once done it is done. And Yes we are to forget also, but forgetting does not mean we have no memory of the event. It only means because of the forgiveness we no longer cling to the memories of the event in a way that brings discomfort or the desire to see vengeance.
My mother was murdered brutally, beaten and had her head blown off. I have forgiven the person for that as well as forgotten about it. I still am aware of the event, but it has no place in my life since it is all forgotten because of forgiveness. So yes we are to forget also. We could say that forgetting is the true evidence that forgiveness has taken place.

 

[Salty]

I have been thinking about this for quite a while.

First and foremost, I do not believe you can forgive someone until they ask forgiveness. And if they truly seek forgiveness, I am more than willing to provide it.

Dcorbett stated "Bitterness grows out of our refusal, to let go when someone or something is taken from us. Bitterness is being constantly hurt by a memory and is holding onto a hurt until it has a hold on you." I assume she is implying that if you do not forgive than you allow bitterness to set in. I do not accept that theory.
I have had people do me extreme emotional harm - I have not offered forgiveness as they have not requested it- yet I have not allowed bitterness to set it. Does it hurt, yes; as that is how our mortal minds work - but I have picked up and moved on - very effectively IMHO.
Yet, if this person wanted to sit down and talk, and ask forgiveness, I would not hesitate, and if they felt I harmed them, I would be more than willing to ask forgiveness myself.
As far as forgetting - I think it is virtually impossible to forget - in our mortal way of thinking. Yet, it would not be hard for me to put it so far back in my mind it would be in essence "lost in all the junk" up there.

I once had someone say to me "I forgive you" my answer was "No you can't, First I didn't ask forgiveness and second I did not do anything wrong" In his eyes he thought I did. Thoughts?

 

[preacher4truth]

Does God forget our sins?

Someone told ne He doesn't forget, but He does forgive. I don't see the word forget used in conjuction with forgiveness. Remember them no more, but not "forget."

 

[Salty]

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more

 

[Gina B]

Very often people ask "what does God do?"

That's well and all if we were also gods, but we're not. We can't do what God the Father does, neither does it appear that we're supposed to in many ways. The Bible tells us of many instances when suffering and negative consequences occurred over trying to act like such.

This next part is what I'll call:

*The Scripture According to Gina B* Ya know, I put it in ways that I get but others might not or maybe they do but don't want to admit their brains work like mine because mine's kinda crazy in how it lets stuff come out. :smilewinkgrin:

People who do wrong are told not just to pay restitution, but to increase such. That's both old and new testament. What we're told is to not repay those who do wrong with evil. Justice isn't evil. Someone steals from you, you can forgive him/her and still accept recompense but you can't go slap 'em upside the head. Even if you really want to and they really seem to deserve it. So if I'm eating a Hershey candy bar and you come snatch it from me and eat it yourself, you should apologize. I'll tentatively forgive you because I'm not sure if you really mean it. Then you go and buy me four Godiva bars and hand them to me untouched. (because Godiva is holier than Hershey, even the name proves it) Then I completely believe and completely forgive and we're even all around. There's a bit of gray area on whether or not to pay me back for my broken pinky after I slapped you upside the head. Depends on whether it was self-defense during the act or just plain upset after.

Either way, the moral is that people should give me chocolate just to stay on the safe side.

Something like that.

 

[Andy_S]

I really struggle with this one!

Forgiveness does not come naturally to me, although I've made progress.

Forgetting seems impossible.

 

[menageriekeeper]

So what do we do, Gina, when there is no recompense?

My parents can't give me a new childhood (and I wouldn't trust them to even if they could!). In our case there is no recompense. Perhaps it would help if they changed their behavior now and in the future, I don't know cause I can't see that happening, but I don't know how they could repair the past.

 

[Gina B]

So what do we do, Gina, when there is no recompense?

My parents can't give me a new childhood (and I wouldn't trust them to even if they could!). In our case there is no recompense. Perhaps it would help if they changed their behavior now and in the future, I don't know cause I can't see that happening, but I don't know how they could repair the past.

That's an awesome question.
First I can say a bit about my own experience with having issues growing up. It's SO hard to forgive, but my situation may be different in that they actually admitted there were problems and wanted to explain and apologize. Until then I'd kept contact minimal or absent. However, at that point I was able to forgive, although yeah, some things still hurt to remember and there's a level of trust that I just don't have.
But...I definitely see them in a different light now. A more respectful one, a more understanding one. Forgiving didn't come all at once until I saw a few things and evidence that they really did care about things.

Recompense? I never asked for it. I suppose that if some people felt the need, it could happen in forms such as paying for any needed counseling, respecting the wishes of the person they hurt, whether that means understanding the person can only emotionally handle a limited relationship or maybe not a relationship at all. Or being willing to work on it slow. Understanding that if trust was broken on certain levels, it may mean they should understand and accept concerns for other things, such as...well, you've got kids. If they insisted on seeing them alone and you weren't comfortable with that, part of it could be that they accept that without arguing.

That's a case where I feel forgiveness can be done. The other parties don't even have to know about it if they chose not to apologize because when it comes to emotional hurt, we carry that and holding onto it can definitely lead to bitterness. What if someone dies before asking forgiveness? I can't believe that in every situation, we need to wait for them to apologize before we can forgive.

Some things just can't be compensated for though. Still, they were allowed to happen and we are told that for believers, God can take things meant for evil and turn them to good. Think of lessons learned...sometimes I see adults who had what they call "great childhoods" totally stink at raising kids. They've never understood the depth of pain a parent can cause to a kid for life. Those who have been through it know what it feels like and can use that to better how they raise their kids. It also seems that those who went through crazy childhoods often take on careers where they help other people. They're more sensitive to the needs of kids and you gotta admit, it's a whole lot easier to recognize a kid in need if you've been one yourself. I also notice a lot of people who go into nursing, counseling, or the like.

Good is coming out of bad experiences and they are affecting change and healing to a lot of people. Kind of like the concept that if we didn't know pain, we couldn't appreciate the lack of it. We never understood grace until we understood our own sin, and still it is hard to comprehend. And when there's an unrepentant set of parents, it's may even be somewhat easier to forgive because wow. What is the eternal future going to be for them? Christians repent of their wrong. Unbelievers don't. It's harder to continue to feel anger and injustice when you know what eternity holds in store for unbelievers.

Have you ever flat out asked if they felt as if they did anything wrong? Some people just don't get it. "Well, that's how I was raised and I turned out fine" when they really didn't, but they honestly just don't get that.

 

[abcgrad94]

So what do we do, Gina, when there is no recompense?

My parents can't give me a new childhood (and I wouldn't trust them to even if they could!). In our case there is no recompense. Perhaps it would help if they changed their behavior now and in the future, I don't know cause I can't see that happening, but I don't know how they could repair the past.

MK, sometimes recompense and restoration are not possible. That's a real tough one, especially when a crime has been committed against you and you know that ON EARTH, the person who hurt you will never receive true justice. The bad guy gets away with it and there's nothing you can do to change things. That is very hard to accept, and it is a hurt that will NEVER go away. Humanly speaking, unless you get knocked in the head and lose your memory, you cannot forget.

I find it's much easier to forgive and heal when you've removed yourself from the situation. In my case, my dad could abuse, apologize, and turn right around and do it over and over again. A person who is truly sorry will not only apologize, they will turn from the sin and stop committing it on a continual basis. Unfortunately, even certain "Christians" will fall for this apology line and tell you "forgiveness" means continuing to have a relationship with the abuser, whether it's a spouse, child, relative, friend, etc. Not so.

In my case, I had to make a tough decision--remove myself from the person. A cut will not heal if you continue to expose it to germs. Same with emotional healing. You have to get away from it. Eliminating contact with someone who has hurt you is not bitterness, it's protecting yourself from future hurt. It is possible to forgive and move on without being reconciled in the relationship. There is a big difference.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Have you ever flat out asked if they felt as if they did anything wrong?

More than once. Both my brother and I. Seperately and together.

mother says: "I'm your mother and I have the RIGHT to tell you what I think and I'm NEVER wrong and if you are hurt then its because YOU are doing wrong, not because I said something hurtful."

Dad says: "She is your mother."

Sigh.

ABC, I have removed myself from them and years have gone by with little or no contact and I have healed. But if I removed myself entirely, they'd have no one at all to look after them. They have no friends and the few siblings they have left that will speak to them are in no shape to provide any sort of care and not even much company. (a few phone calls occasionally is it) Whether I forgive them entirely or not I still feel it is my duty to be sure they can take care of themselves (which they can so far) or that they are taken care of. I can't do it for them, so I do it for Christ and by looking at it like that I no longer get sick to my stomach every time we have contact.

But if you want honesty, I rather never have to look at or deal with them again.

 

[Salty]

Either way, the moral is that people should give me chocolate just to stay on the safe side.

Okay, okay, your UPS pagage from Penna, will be arriving this week....:saint:

 

[Gina B]

MK, what you're doing is showing straight up grace. You're willing to do what you think is good for THEM in spite of the pain it causes you. Many people would not do the same. Because of your kindness and sense of Christian duty (and nobody can tell you you're wrong in that if that's what you're convicted of) you are ensuring that you remain blameless and beyond in the matter. Hats off to you! Just don't forget that while you're willing to sacrifice, you don't turn into the sacrifice and others in need of your help (ie children) have enough of mommy left to fulfill their needs too. That's something I've been repeating to therapists and psychiatrists and the like as we work on ensuring the mental health and well being of my step-children and what others who have gone through tough family issues tell me. "I'm willing to sacrifice, I'm not willing to BE the sacrifice because the other kids and my husband need me too."
Sounds like you're a strong and amazing lady.

Salty, I'll forgive you if I stand by my door in this 98 degree heat peering out the road for the next few days looking for that truck. But I won't forget. :tongue3:

 

[CF1]

A great book on this subject is

Total Forgiveness by R.T. Kendall

It talks about how sometimes we have to forgive again, and again, as we can't always realistically forget. Each time we remember, we have to forgive.

 

[Jon-Marc]

I don't know about others, but I am incapable of making myself forget. If I could, I would like to forget most of my life.