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Should we read our Bible?
- Thread starter JonC
- Start date
I completely agree. That is why I think we read the Bible and then seek help on what we have trouble with.
I have a friend who is Catholic. He says he will always be Catholic because his family is Catholic (it's a tradition). But in reading the Bible he always has to defer to what the Catholic Church tells him a passage really means.
Don't get me wrong, there are difficult things in Scripture. But the whole of Scripture is not difficult to grasp. Men make it hard because it is to them foolish (not quite up to par with their theology).
Philip encountered an Ethiopian. The man asked how could he understand the passage he was reading unless somebody guide him. Philip explained the passage.
Today that would be done by expanding on the verse, examining the words Isaiah used, unveiling theories of Atonement, and exploring the extent of Christ's death
But that is not what happened. The Ethiopian did not struggle with understanding what Isaiah was saying. Instead he could not understand if Whom the passage spoke. And Philip showed him it was about Jesus.
KenH
Well-Known Member
There is no explaining the "theories" the atonement in proclaiming the gospel of Christ, as there are is only fact, as revealed by God in his Word, about Christ's atonement. If there is any explaining false of "theories" of the atonement that is to be done while proclaiming the fact of Christ's atonement on behalf of God's elect - 2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
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Oh, my!!
People in these camps do not read their Bibles at all, I find. They merely allow these types to tell them what the Bible says.
You missed the point.
Everyone of those listed were men or women who read their Bibles without anyone to provide discernment for them. So, Satan gave them discernment over the text and they interpreted as they read the Bible.
We see atheist scholars who are simply reading the Bible and interpreting whatever their heart chooses to interpret. They have no discernment and no legacy of faith (Hebrews 12:1).
Jon, there is a reason why Paul and the other Apostles called their readers and listeners to follow the traditions the Apostles had passed down. Even in the early church, false doctrines were abounding as people "did whatever seemed right in their own eyes."
Now, I'm done since I find you to be a terrible moderator and bully at the BB.
I do enjoy reading (and actually agree with) the writings passed down from the Early Church.
That said, I do not believe in apostolic succession. That is, I do not believe that we should look to a group of people (for you it would be men who lived in the 16th Century...for me it would be the Early Church) to hand down doctrine.
Instead I believe that we are to test doctrine against Scripture rather than trusting in men who "tickle our ears" (who wrote things we agree with).
The criteria cannot be whatever doctrine or tradition that was handed to us. It HAS to be Scripture. This is, IMHO, ultimately the doctrine to which Paul was referring.
We have the "doctrine handed down" in the Bible, not in Presbyterian Theology, or Catholic Theology, or even Baptist Theology. It is in Scripture, not tradition.
I think that is the danger of relying on people in ones own tradition to teach what the Bible "really means".
I doubt a person who just picked up a Bible and read it would conclude (based on that reading) that the Jehovah Witnesses are correct. But a person indoctrinated in Jehovah Witness doctrine may read the Bible and see support for that doctrine.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Amen.
That's because JW's and Mormon's have Bibles with damaging alterations to them
Done that! Alexander Scourby.
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KenH
Well-Known Member
I've not listened to his except briefly.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Of course we should read our bibles, but we also need teachers.
What does scripture say?
Scripture says God has given us teachers, mature Christians with a deep understanding of God’s word to guide us.
Jesus commanded the disciples to make disciples… teaching them to obey all that He commanded them.
He didn’t say “tell the disciples to find a scroll and figure it out in their own”
Phillip was sent by God Holy Spirit to the Ethiopian Eunuch to help him understand the scrolls he was reading.
I heard of a man once that said the only thing he didn’t understand about the OT was how the Hebrew people carried Noah’s Ark around in the dessert for 40 years.
I think an experienced teacher would have been of great benefit to him.
Read your Bible. Get a variety of views on doctrine and be able to articulate why people hold the positions the hold. Once you understand the various positions and the scripture that supports each…..
…. You will be convinced the doctrines of grace is the only thing that makes since.
peace to you
What does scripture say?
Scripture says God has given us teachers, mature Christians with a deep understanding of God’s word to guide us.
Jesus commanded the disciples to make disciples… teaching them to obey all that He commanded them.
He didn’t say “tell the disciples to find a scroll and figure it out in their own”
Phillip was sent by God Holy Spirit to the Ethiopian Eunuch to help him understand the scrolls he was reading.
I heard of a man once that said the only thing he didn’t understand about the OT was how the Hebrew people carried Noah’s Ark around in the dessert for 40 years.
I think an experienced teacher would have been of great benefit to him.
Read your Bible. Get a variety of views on doctrine and be able to articulate why people hold the positions the hold. Once you understand the various positions and the scripture that supports each…..
…. You will be convinced the doctrines of grace is the only thing that makes since.
peace to you
Back in 1970, I was in Basic Combat training at Ft Dix, NJ. Our base was adjacent to the McQuire AFB runways. One day - while we were sitting during some outdoor instruction - a Drill Sgt spoke up and stated: See that plane? That plane is going to Viet Nam - 20% of the men on that plane will not come back alive. I highly suggest you listen to me today!"
I listen - and after I had orders for Nam - I told people that I was coming back alive in one piece without the aid of a body bag!
That day at Dix - and every day after, I listened to wise counsel!
In this battle agaisnt the devil and his demons - we need to listen to wise counsel
It’s crazy
some people reject the counsel of others and commentaries, yet listen to Apostate pastors while lambasting education, seminary and Bible College
some people reject the counsel of others and commentaries, yet listen to Apostate pastors while lambasting education, seminary and Bible College
I agree. I had CoC friends who always said they didn't believe in theology
. The issue is the order of things.
If I am trying to find out the best solar panels for my home I need to do legitimate research...not listen to the salesman I like best.
With Scripture far too many people start with commentaries. They just buy whatever is being sold to them and interpret God's Word along the same lines.
We need to rely on God, read His Word, and then look for help when needed (or if we come up with a brand new theology).
Good point. I think we need to consider what these teachers God gives are given to teach (is it applying God's Word, is it spiritual growth, or is it theologies?).Of course we should read our bibles, but we also need teachers.
What does scripture say?
Scripture says God has given us teachers, mature Christians with a deep understanding of God’s word to guide us.
Jesus commanded the disciples to make disciples… teaching them to obey all that He commanded them.
He didn’t say “tell the disciples to find a scroll and figure it out in their own”
Phillip was sent by God Holy Spirit to the Ethiopian Eunuch to help him understand the scrolls he was reading.
I heard of a man once that said the only thing he didn’t understand about the OT was how the Hebrew people carried Noah’s Ark around in the dessert for 40 years.
I think an experienced teacher would have been of great benefit to him.
Read your Bible. Get a variety of views on doctrine and be able to articulate why people hold the positions the hold. Once you understand the various positions and the scripture that supports each…..
…. You will be convinced the doctrines of grace is the only thing that makes since.
peace to you
I have seen Christians point to John Gill and say "God given teacher!". I've seen the same with John Wesley and Tozier.
And they are right.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I had a professor who gave the account of his first pastorate out of seminary. It was full of conflict best summarized, I think, by a deacon telling him that in 40 years of church going, no one had ever taught that Jesus is God.
After he left, the church changed its constitution to say they would never again call a seminary educated man to be their pastor.
peace to you
Back in the 70's seminaries inherited a bad reputation (in the SBC). A young man would go to seminary with a zeal for God but come out philosophy driven. My mom had that concern when I went to seminary (in a way, she was justified as I came out a Calvinist....but I repented
). Seminaries can be problematic.
For one, ministry of the gospel of Jesus Christ was never intended to be a profession but instead a life. Paul spoke of evangelists being "paid" in the form of churches caring for their needs. But today we take that to mean churches should be staffed by "professionals".
Another issue is indoctrination. Some seminaries indoctrinate into one specific philosophy. Others don't, but students studying different Christian theologies normally settle on one "camp" (self-indoctrination).
There are good things as well. I went to a seminary that didn't indoctrinate into a specific theology (we did have to be Baptist with recommendations, and hold at least some common views, before we were admitted).
It was a time to study and understand what other Christians believed. It was a time devoted to work on ones own beliefs. It was a time to study Hebrew and Greek (and German). And, most of all, it was a time focused to studying Scripture and discussing Christ among ourselves.
Since the New Testament declares the Old Covenant is obsolete, why should we spend time reading the OT? The answer is not blowing in the wind, it is right there in scripture, the OT makes us aware of our sin, thus reflects the operation of the Holy Spirit, and leads us to Christ as wretched sinners in need of salvation. But we should understand the OT in light of the New, not the other way around!