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Should we tithe or give?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Soulman, Feb 19, 2005.

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  1. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

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    Quoted by IZZAKSDAD: I have given ample scriptural support to tithing in other posts.

    Please point me to one. Any one that substantiates new testament tithing.

    Quoted by IZZAKSDAD:The point is, we need to quit watering down the Word in order to soothe our guilty conscience.

    You accuse me of watering down the Word? To sooth my own guilty concience?

    1. I have done anything but water down the word. I have provided much scripture to adequately present my position.

    2. I have no guilty concience as I give the new testament way, so please don't embarrass yourself by flamingly judging me! Also you have no idea how much, when and to whom my offering goes.

    There are those that do use this as an excuse not to give and may God forgive them. Just don't count me as one because NO man has a clue as to how much I give. As it should be.

    Quoted by IZZAKSDAD: Soulman, I do not want to get into a war of words with you, I just want to challenge you to be a better student of the Word, and more than that, an obedient doer of the Word.

    I am no theologin but I have been a Christian for 34 years and read my bible daily. Because God's word speaks louder than you I am not a good student of the Word?

    Sir, I also do not want a war of words with you. You have shown no substantial biblical evidence supporting your view. All I have heard from you are the lame judgemental insults and inuendos' that come from ministries afraid to trust God with their finances His way.

    So please get off your arm chair and prove me wrong or drop it! [​IMG]
     
    #61 Soulman, Mar 12, 2005
  2. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

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    IZZAKSDAD,
    I wish to apologize to you for the way in which I addressed you. I guess I was a little angry with you. We should be able to have meaningful discussion without a bunch of spears being thrown back and forth. Once again, I am sorry!
     
    #62 Soulman, Mar 12, 2005
  3. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    :rolleyes: Izzaksdad...I'd be very interested to hear your objective comments on the passage of scripture that Richard quotes above in regards to the meaning of the "tithe",its usage,and its applicability to todays New Testament church.I don't think anyone is looking for a "war of words" here....just a clear interpretation and sound exegesis of what the Word of God actually does teach.I (we) think that the plain language of scripture clearly teaches something different than what is being taught in most Baptist churches today.I personally ALWAYS used to believe tithing as you define it....until I really studied it out for myself comparing scripture WITH scripture.I am open-minded and I challenge you or anybody else to prove their position using the plain statements of scripture such as that which was quoted above.I for one just want to be right with God about what I say,think,do and believe.We are not under the Old Testament Law but rather under Grace.The Ten Commandments...God's MORAL Law is still in effect for all mankind...BUT...the "handwriting of ordinances" that was given to the Jews/the nation of Israel to govern the way they lived and approached or worshipped God is of none effect....nailed to the cross of Calvary...PRAISE GOD!What say you?

    Greg Sr. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #63 Gregory Perry Sr., Mar 12, 2005
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Most people think the Tithe/tenth = 10%. Good starting place. Jews did it or got killed!

    Then every 3 years the Jews were required to give a "double tithe", which works out to 3.33% per year more.

    Then (I don't have my notes here) there are a couple of other required offerings - firstfruits, sin, etc that were required of Jews annually - or be stoned to death. Good incentive. 2% on average.

    Then add special offerings for firstborn male, for building a succoth shelter, etc

    Figure 16-17% annually required. But only on INCREASE. Did not pay tax on house or land or flock - just the crops grown that year, just the additions to the flock (or sale from it)

    Add that to the required Roman taxes of 75 days' pay (4 drachma) and you have about 35% of total income from tithe + tax.

    I PAY 30% Tax/Social Security and at least 10% to our church and 5% to other causes! I AM BETTER THAN A JEW!!

    But still not finding one NT verse telling me to tithe or to tithe to my local church. None.
     
    #64 Dr. Bob, Mar 12, 2005
  5. richard n koustas

    richard n koustas New Member

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    yes, El_Guero...it pays to see what the word says.

    The church i used to attend taught that tithing was an OT principle (and had no application to the NT church). at the new church, i heard a message that we should tithe. huh? i went home and did a word search on tith* and read everything the bible had to say. had some (very lively) discussions during the men's bible class (the reaction i got after reading duet. 14 was, well, interesting). 2 weeks ago the pastor gave a message on 'giving'. i shook his afterwards and said that that was great...he didn't mention the 't' word once...

    .
     
    #65 richard n koustas, Mar 12, 2005
  6. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    Richard,

    That was one smart man ... ;o)
     
    #66 El_Guero, Mar 12, 2005
  7. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

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    Quoted by richard n koustas: 2 weeks ago the pastor gave a message on 'giving'. i shook his afterwards and said that that was great...he didn't mention the 't' word once...

    Good to see some churches doing it right. I am 100% all for preaching on giving. People need to know how to support their church. Tithing was God's way in the old testament. It is just not His way now.
     
    #67 Soulman, Mar 13, 2005
  8. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    Richard...It might be helpful here if you have time to supply a list of all the verses in the OT and the NT that deal with or mention "tithing".Also a list of all the NT passages that deal with "giving".I have seen most if not all of them as I have read and studied the subject but I don't have a good memory for being able to dredge them up on demand.A good concise listing of the verses would give all comers a place to start studying.I can or could do it myself but ya'll will be waiting a week or two for me to put it together...I'm slow...lol.

    Greg Sr.
     
    #68 Gregory Perry Sr., Mar 13, 2005
  9. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    After 8 weeks of Stewardship messages by my pastor, we finally wrapped things up this morning.

    I think his conclusions and applications are worth posting here.

    ******************************************

    My Stewardship Commitment to God

    #1. I affirm God’s full ownership of me (1 Corinthians 6:19-20) and everything entrusted to me (Psalm 24:1). I recognize that my time, talents and treasure are, in fact, His.
    I accept my responsibility as God’s resource manager and commit to asking Him regularly what He wants me to do with His resources.

    #2. I believe that earth’s treasures are temporal (Matthew 6:19) while heaven’s treasures are eternal (Matthew 6:20). Therefore, I commit to regularly evaluate my purchases and investments in light of what will last for eternity. As a follower of Jesus, my intention is to grow in giving more towards His kingdom (Matthew 6:21).

    #3. I believe that heaven, not earth, is my ultimate home (Philippians 3:20). Therefore, I will regularly and cheerfully give of my resources to build God’s kingdom. I commit myself to lay out His assets regularly, leaving nothing as untouchable, asking Him for direction in sharing them.

    #4. I believe that God wants me to become a generous giver as a reflection of His very character. I believe that God prospers me so that I can increase my standard of giving (2 Corinthians 2:11). Therefore, I will commit myself to resisting materialism, which can lead to indebtedness (1 Timothy 6:9-10). In doing so, I will strive to grow more freely as a generous giver.

    #5. I believe that God has blessed me so that I can be a blessing to others (1 Timothy 6:17-19). Therefore, I will pray that God will keep my heart sensitive to the poor and needy around me. Though I cannot meet every need others may have, I can and will commit to following God’s prompting to meet the needs He puts before me.

    (from a message by Pastor Scott Mitchell)

    Rob
     
    #69 Deacon, Mar 13, 2005
  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Boy, THAT will preach. Think I will "borrow" it. Is there a fuller text somewhere? (Serious, I am preaching to our new church and "faithful stewardship" is an upcoming April sermon topic)
     
    #70 Dr. Bob, Mar 13, 2005
  11. Dave

    Dave Member
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    Deacon,

    That is an excellent summary of what our stewardship should be! Thank you for posting it here. I am going to refer to it often in my own prayers for help in becoming a good steward of what God has blessed me with.

    Thanks again,
    Dave
     
    #71 Dave, Mar 13, 2005
  12. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    In my post above I made an err.
    Point #4's passage should read "2 Corinthians 9:11"

    I will be posting these resolutions beside my own desk for a daily reminder of my real responsibilities and outlook.

    Rob
     
    #72 Deacon, Mar 14, 2005
  13. richard n koustas

    richard n koustas New Member

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    Gregory Perry Sr.

    I've been 'slow' to respond, my father-in-law passed into the glory last week. it's been busy. i'll try to get the old testament reference up in the next day or two.
     
    #73 richard n koustas, Mar 15, 2005
  14. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    #74 El_Guero, Mar 15, 2005
  15. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    So why aren't we teaching the Biblical tithe?
     
    #75 El_Guero, Mar 15, 2005
  16. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    Well...for one thing...it's NOT for New Testament Christians saved by grace through faith!

    Greg Sr......JMO!
     
    #76 Gregory Perry Sr., Mar 15, 2005
  17. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    And....there is no Levitical Priesthood that is supposed to "receive" tithes....nor a "storehouse" to keep them in(although some baptist preachers will insist that their church building qualifies....LOL)!

    Greg Sr.
     
    #77 Gregory Perry Sr., Mar 15, 2005
  18. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer New Member

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    Name one verse in the entire New Testament where the New Testament church is commanded to tithe.

    And I know Jesus told the pharasies to tithe but he was speaking to people still under the Mosaic Convanent and their tithing was toward the temple and nation of Israel. No where do we see believers bringing their "tithes" into the New Testament churches. It was always offerings.

    New Testament giving is free-will giving, based on love, and what one has, not what he does not. It is not to be done under compulsion, but cheerfully for God loves a cheerfull giver.

    I wrote a more in-depth article on this a while a back and it is at http://www.ifbreformation.org/tithing.aspx


    IFBReformer
    http://www.ifbreformation.org
     
    #78 IfbReformer, Mar 15, 2005
  19. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    No, Jesus does not tell or command Pharisees to tithe. Christ was talking about about Pharisees' attitude, and hyprocrite about their good works and laws, that's all. This do nothing with us.


    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
    #79 DeafPosttrib, Mar 15, 2005
  20. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    Larry

    One of the better articles that I have read on the subject ... kinda long ... but, not the longest ...
     
    #80 El_Guero, Mar 15, 2005
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