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Showing a Confederate Flag?

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by KenH, Aug 30, 2003.

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  1. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C New Member

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    If you chose to fly a confederate flag, you will be considered a racist by our society - and by me.

    If you chose to fly a confederate flag your witness to an African American will be lost.

    If you chose to fly a confederate flag you will not develop friendships with African Americans.

    African Americans view the confederate flag as Jewish people view the swastika, to them it is nothing more than a symbol of hate and opression.

    Paul tells Christians to refrain from eating meat sacrificed to idols - not because it is bad but becasue it might cause a brother to stumble. I think that principle can be easily applied to flying or otherwise displaying the confederate flag.

    On a personal note, I am getting more and more depressed reading these threads that have to deal with slavery, the confederate flag etc. If you people really believe what you are writing - and I think you do, how can you spread the love of Christ to those that are not white? Can you even establish a relationship that can lead to a witnessing situation? What will happen to your witness when they find out what is in your heart?
     
    #41 Jimmy C, Aug 31, 2003
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Well, Jimmy C, there was not always this problem until recently concerning the Confederate flag. It became a problem when hatemongers among us decided to use it for political and fundraising purposes to drive a wedge between people and they have succeeded in poisoning the minds of some on this issue in the past 20 years or so. And unfortunately, it appears you are one of those whose mind they have poisoned.

    You have my sympathy.

    God save the South!

    [​IMG]
     
    #42 KenH, Aug 31, 2003
  3. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C New Member

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    Ken

    The one thing I dont need is the sympathy of one who would fly the confederate flag.

    Yes, my views on the subject have evolved as I developed friends who were of different races than I. As it is said in business, to stand still is to move backward.

    I will ask you point blank
    1. do you have any African American friends
    2. do you consider an African American as your equal
    3. have you witnessed to an African American
    4 do you have African Americans in your church, would you serve as a deacon with an african american?
    5. If so, do you think that if they knew your views on the war of northern agression that they could serve with you?

    I count it a privlige to have attended a racially diverse SBC church for the past 15 years and have served as a deacon with many Hispanic and Aferican American men.

    You sir have my sympathy
     
    #43 Jimmy C, Aug 31, 2003
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Evidently, you missed this post of mine on another thread:

    Well, I need to defend my position. I will just say that I have suffered reprimands(in private) for not being a racist.

    1) In first grade I was severely reprimanded by my mother for playing with a Mexican-American first grader.

    2) A few years later while watching on TV the race riots in places like Detroit and Newark(are they in the South :confused: )during a visit to my grandma, my mother made a disparaging remark about blacks which led me to say to her, "They have the same kind of blood you do." Later she said, "Don't you respect your grandma?" I have no idea how that fit in.

    For several years while I had money before I got married, I supported a missionary in Ghana.

    Of the 10 people I supervise at work, 4 are African-Americans.

    Therefore, I reject any charge that I am a racist because I support the CSA and States' rights and limited, constitutional government.

    As I also stated on another thread several weeks ago, I would not place a Confederate flag in my cubicle at work because of the poisoning of people's minds by bigots against the South and by bigots(such as the KKK) that have misused the Confederate flag. However, I am right now looking at a beautiful Confederate flag in my study.

    By the way, Jimmy C, since the KKK also uses the Stars and Stripes and the Christian flag, do you have a problem with displaying those as well?
     
    #44 KenH, Aug 31, 2003
  5. Justified

    Justified New Member

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    Just for some of the reasons mentioned here on this thread alone, are more then enough reasons for a Christian not to have or display that flag!

    [​IMG]
     
    #45 Justified, Aug 31, 2003
  6. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C New Member

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    Ken,

    I have no problem with the Stars and Stripes or the Christian Flags, neither of those is viewed by African Americans as a symbol of hatred as the confederate flag is.

    Do you really not see the relationship between the cofederate flag to an African American as a swastika to a Jew?

    Now please answer my questions plus one more - if one of your coworkers (African American) came over to your house, would you take the flag down before conducting the tour, or keep them out of your study and hope they did not open that door by mistake when looking for the toilet?
     
    #46 Jimmy C, Aug 31, 2003
  7. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    1. Yes.

    2. Yes.

    3. I'm not sure how you define witnessing, but regardless, I would say as much so as to anyone else.

    4. I don't know. The church I am a member of has not targeted that people group. It's a rather large church, not near a part of town where a lot of African-Americans live. But if we had African-American members and one was a deacon that would be fine with me. As for me, I doubt I will ever be a deacon as I have no desire to be one. I was asked to stand for election once and I turned the idea down.

    5. Since I don't plan on serving as a deacon, that is rather moot.
     
    #47 KenH, Aug 31, 2003
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I probably wouldn't think about it so the flag would probably be up(although sometimes the ceiling fan blows it down as it is a desktop flag with the pole currently stuck in a roll of paper towels [​IMG] ). My study is quite small so other than sticking one's head in and saying "This is the study" there's not a lot of time to be spent looking in it.

    Now let me ask you one question, Jimmy C. Do you believe it is a sin for a Christian to display a Confederate flag(in private even) and that in doing so he will be sent to hell forever and ever and ever for doing so?
     
    #48 KenH, Aug 31, 2003
  9. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C New Member

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    Nope it is your freedom to display what ever your heart desires, and I dont think that it is sin for you to do so. But there are consequences to every action, and your witness could be destroyed. Just as eating meat served to idols could tarnish the witness of Paul, showing the confederate flag could tarnish yours.

    What either you or I really believe is known only to us and to God. On a bulletin board such as this one we are free to engage in whatever hyperbole we want. There is some pretty good hyperbole on this one thats for sure. I dont know what is in your heart, I can only judge by what you type, but you and a few others do scare me. I am concerned that the witness of this board would be compromised when someone of another race stumbles on it.
     
    #49 Jimmy C, Aug 31, 2003
  10. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C New Member

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    by the way, I belive the Texas State Flag predates the civil war, perhaps one of the confederate flags was modeled after the Texas flag
     
    #50 Jimmy C, Aug 31, 2003
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I cannot speak for others but from me what you read is what you get. I don't play games on this board. [​IMG]
     
    #51 KenH, Aug 31, 2003
  12. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C New Member

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    Ken,

    Do you think that your witness to an African American would be compromised if they came in to your study and saw the confederate flag? If not, why not - and if so, is it sin for you to display it?
     
    #52 Jimmy C, Aug 31, 2003
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    BONNIE BLUE FLAG OF THE REPUBLIC OF WEST FLORIDA 1810

    The Republic of West Florida was organized in 1810 after a successful rebellion against Spain. The Bonnie Blue flag was adopted and waved over Pass Christian and Pascagoula for 74 days. It was the pattern for the Texas Lone Star flag and reappeared in 1861 during the War Between the States. The design was one single white star centered on a blue background.

    - www.visitmississippi.org/resources/flags.htm
     
    #53 KenH, Aug 31, 2003
  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I cannot speak for another person. It should not bother them since I have a right to display a symbol of my heritage just as they have the right to display a symbol of their African heritage.

    By the way, one of the African-American women I supervise has several mean-spirited anti-George W. Bush items on the walls of her cubicle and she put those up there when I was still a George W. Bush supporter(I no longer am). But I never mentioned it to her and it did not interfere and does not interfere with our relationship.

    But I am pretty much willing to live and let live. I am not easily offended.
     
    #54 KenH, Aug 31, 2003
  15. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C New Member

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    So you disagree with paul on this subject? Funny how it is easy to agree with paul in areas where convienent but not in ones that step on our toes!

    by the way, the Texas State flag was adopted in 1845, whether it was modeled on the Bonnie Blue flag or not, the Texas State flage was not designed as an anti union flag, or as a symbol of the confederacy. The war of northern agression did not start until 1861.
     
    #55 Jimmy C, Aug 31, 2003
  16. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    1) Nope.

    Romans 14:3-4 (ESV)
    [3]Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. [4] Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

    2) You are missing the point. The Bonnie Blue predated the Texas Revolution. It's incorporation in the Texas State flag has nothing to do with the CSA. But the Bonnie Blue flag was the first unofficial flag of the Confederacy. It is an interesting historical note, that's all.
     
    #56 KenH, Aug 31, 2003
  17. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C New Member

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    You stopped reading just a bit to soon

    Romans 14 continues
    13 Therefore let us not judge R666 one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way. 14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another. 20 Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. 21 It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles. 22 The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.
     
    #57 Jimmy C, Aug 31, 2003
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    So, you want to ignore verses 3-4 that set the stage for the rest of the verses?
     
    #58 KenH, Aug 31, 2003
  19. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    Hoo boy, has this become a quagmire or what?

    Heritage, not hatred.

    True, one should not do something if it causes one who is weak in the faith to stumble. But no one can demand another to take down a part of their heritage because some people disagree (that is how prayer was taken out of public schools...one woman yelled loud enough).

    I reserve the right to fly Dixie, if I so choose. It does not symbolize hatred and racial prejudice to me. I have been the target of such prejudice, and am strongly opposed to it (I am a rather large white male). But I will not give up the right to hold on to a piece of my ancestry.

    By the way, many people are offended by the cross. Should we take it down to keep from causing them to stumble?

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
    #59 Trotter, Aug 31, 2003
  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Great point!!!! [​IMG]
     
    #60 KenH, Aug 31, 2003
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