Simple Question...

[Iconoclast]

"Van,

Hello, my friend Van,

I hope you are feeling well.

I could not tell by this post, however.

Rarely do you find a post so filled with false doctrine, but the above fills the frame.

Well you find such posts quite often from what I can see Anytime a Calvinist posts truth, you seem unable to welcome or receive that truth, but find fault and promptly create a fiction-filled alternative, without comprehension of what was offered.

Covenant salvation is false doctrine.

What????
Psalm 14 The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
maybe the psalmist did not get to read your post???

Gen.17:As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
2sam23:5Although my house be not so with God;
yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

Does not seem to be a false doctrine at all....In fact the writer to Hebrews did not see your odd post either as he wrote this;
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.


You have some odd posts for sure. It is no longer a surprise to see such error. When a person turns away from the light of truth, all that is left is darkness.

[next:Jesus death on the cross provides the means of salvation for all mankind.]

Jesus does not make salvation possible, he actually saves all he intended to save.

Those not chosen based on crediting their faith as righteousness remain in the "domain of darkness."

.
Faith is granted as a gift to those elected and regenerated by the Spirit
No one has inherent faith, so no one's faith is credited as righteousness.
This has been explained to you but not everyone is given to understand.

Christ's death provides the means of salvation for all mankind.

Anyone who is saved is saved by the cross. Anyone anywhere is saved by the cross, but it is not everyone ever born. The suggestion of a "potential salvation "is without merit.

The claim that Christ does not provide the means of salvation for all mankind is false doctrine
.

No, but what is false is your post suggesting such unbiblical notions, ignoring the Covenant Salvation

 

[George Antonios]

Yes. It covers the past sin of unbelief in a person's life after they make the decision to believe in Him as their Lord as well as their Savior.

So it covers all other sins only up to the point of salvation but not after?

 

[agedman]

To explain in brief my own opinion, and where the typical Calvinist presentation and I differ, I offer the following.

I consider the Apostle John the clearest in presenting, for when there is exaggerated statements, he documents the source.
For example, when the rulers were complaining and they said, “The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, “You see that you are accomplishing nothing. Look, the world has gone after Him!”

Some use this to show that later use of the “world” doesn’t mean all. I disagree. John is specific that the exaggeration was from the rulers, not a factual statement form him.

When John states, “He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him” it is fact.

When John states, “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world” It is fact.

When John states, “For God so loved the world…” it is fact.

When John states, “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” it is fact.

When John states, “And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” it is fact.

When John states, “You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.” It is fact.


When John states, “…this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.” It is fact.

There are other proofs, but these are offered to demonstrate that John never used exaggerated statements or embellishments, other than when quoting someone else.

so, why then do some good brothers not take “And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.” as fact?

How then does this work?

No person stands before God without the sin covering. That is as it was when the blood was sprinkled in the OT. Not all believed, but the blood covered all.

However, Christ did not die nor did He rise for the benefit of all the world!

The death, burial, and resurrection are for the children of promise, the adopted children, those chosen from the foundations of the world.

Therefore, certainly the propitiation (blood as John used it and Paul used the act itself and cannot be used as a proof for John to revise John) was for the whole of creation. Yet, the whole of creation does still groan under the condemnation, for only believers never die and pass from the physical putting off to the glory that awaits.

So, I am caught between those who claim I am Calvinist and those who claim I am not.

doesn’t matter to me, but for those who want to exercise John’s passage into expressing some limit upon the blood, I cannot agree. John did not use excess in His writing unless quoting someone else who use it.

 

[agedman]

Three questions presenting by implication three falsehoods.
God's revelation initiates His Redemption plan, and God's conditional election includes placing individuals into Christ, completing our spiritual redemption.
Calvinism places God in its man-made box, thus they charge others with their malfeasance.

1) You dishonor yourself proclaiming something is a falsehood when it is not. As if you are the determinator of truth. You are not, as has been shown in unnumbered threads, including this one.

2) God’s election is never “conditional” when it comes to Him keeping the promise. It is you who usurp God and attempt to diminish HIS Divine attributes.

3) It is you who place people in a box that they cannot humanly escape. Such can only hope that God sees the sincerity of the heart that they might be acceptable, yet not really knowing for certain.

And you actually have the audacity of charging others with malfeasance?

Look in the mirror when you ascribe to others what you are.

 

[percho]

I hope it did/does.

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Rom 11:32

 

[HatedByAll]

So it covers all other sins only up to the point of salvation but not after?

I answered the original question. I narrowed my answer to the specifics of what was asked, and no more, because I figured there would be people who would try to make a theological debate out of it. My answer stands. It is what it is.

I have no desire to be part of a theological debate that is the equivalent of Bill Clinton arguing about the meaning of the word "is."

 

[1689Dave]

Does Christ's atonement cover the sin of unbelief?

If it doesn't, it doesn't cover any sin. Herein is the fallacy of universal atonement.

 

[robycop3]

To answer the OP:

Yes, if one repents of it & comes to Jesus in belief & submission.
No, if it's still going on.

 

[kyredneck]

I figured there would be people who would try to make a theological debate out of it

Well, HBA, it IS a Theology Debate Forum, you know. It's kinda sorta the whole idee.....

 

[kyredneck]

I consider the Apostle John the clearest in presenting, for when there is exaggerated statements, he documents the source.
For example, when the rulers were complaining and they said, “The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, “You see that you are accomplishing nothing. Look, the world has gone after Him!”

IMO, it's not an 'exaggerated statement' when you consider that kosmos may simply denote the Old Covenant 'arrangement'.

20 Jesus answered him, I have spoken openly to the world; I ever taught in synagogues, and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and in secret spake I nothing. Jn 18

 

[George Antonios]

I answered the original question. I narrowed my answer to the specifics of what was asked, and no more, because I figured there would be people who would try to make a theological debate out of it. My answer stands. It is what it is.

I have no desire to be part of a theological debate that is the equivalent of Bill Clinton arguing about the meaning of the word "is."

I didn't ask the OP's question's, I asked my own.

 

[Van]

1) You dishonor yourself proclaiming something is a falsehood when it is not. As if you are the determinator of truth. You are not, as has been shown in unnumbered threads, including this one.

2) God’s election is never “conditional” when it comes to Him keeping the promise. It is you who usurp God and attempt to diminish HIS Divine attributes.

3) It is you who place people in a box that they cannot humanly escape. Such can only hope that God sees the sincerity of the heart that they might be acceptable, yet not really knowing for certain.

And you actually have the audacity of charging others with malfeasance?

Look in the mirror when you ascribe to others what you are.

1) "You dishonor yourself"
2) "You are not"..."the determinator of truth."
3) "It is you who usurp God and attempt to diminish HIS Divine attributes."
4) "It is you who place people in a box"
5) "And you actually have the audacity of charging others with malfeasance?"

Nuff said...

1) God's revelation initiates His Redemption plan,
2) God's conditional election includes placing individuals into Christ, completing our spiritual redemption.
3) Calvinism places God in its man-made box, thus they charge others with their malfeasance.​

 

[agedman]

1) "You dishonor yourself"
2) "You are not"..."the determinator of truth."
3) "It is you who usurp God and attempt to diminish HIS Divine attributes."
4) "It is you who place people in a box"
5) "And you actually have the audacity of charging others with malfeasance?"

Nuff said...

1) God's revelation initiates His Redemption plan,
2) God's conditional election includes placing individuals into Christ, completing our spiritual redemption.
3) Calvinism places God in its man-made box, thus they charge others with their malfeasance.​

You are correct

1) "You dishonor yourself"
2) "You are not"..."the determinator of truth."
3) "It is you who usurp God and attempt to diminish HIS Divine attributes."
4) "It is you who place people in a box"
5) "And you actually have the audacity of charging others with malfeasance?"

Nuff said...​