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Simple Question
- Thread starter Deacon
- Start date
Someone had the acuity to keep the letters of the apostle to the uncircumsion separate from the letters of the apostles to the circumcision.
7 but contrariwise, when they saw that I had been intrusted with the gospel of the uncircumcision, even as Peter with the gospel of the circumcision
8 (for he that wrought for Peter unto the apostleship of the circumcision wrought for me also unto the Gentiles);
9 and when they perceived the grace that was given unto me, James and Cephas and John, they who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision; Gal 2
7 but contrariwise, when they saw that I had been intrusted with the gospel of the uncircumcision, even as Peter with the gospel of the circumcision
8 (for he that wrought for Peter unto the apostleship of the circumcision wrought for me also unto the Gentiles);
9 and when they perceived the grace that was given unto me, James and Cephas and John, they who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision; Gal 2
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IMHO, no. They seem to be ordered in terms of history (the four Gospels and then Acts) with the letters to the churches grouped by author and concluding with John's revelation.
It is a logical order, but I don't know how that we can say the order was a second revelation to man in compiling the NT.
It is a logical order, but I don't know how that we can say the order was a second revelation to man in compiling the NT.
HatedByAll
Active Member
Not inspired in the same way the actual Biblical text is inspired. The actual chapters and the verses are not inspired either. But, one could argue that the actual breaking up the Books into Chapters and Verses could have been inspired by the Holy Spirit. Without the divisions it would be quite hard to help others know where to turn to read the same Scripture you are reading. It is reasonable to assume the Holy Spirit lead the individuals who organized the Scripture even if there may be nothing Divine about how they actually did it.
Baptizo
Member
I don’t think so. The order of the Jewish scriptures are different from the ones in our English Bibles so I think that wouldn’t be a big deal for the NT as well. We have the freedom to read the books in our Bibles in any order we want and won’t be spiritually harmed by that in any way.
Luther’s version rearranged a few books he questioned. The last 4 books he listed in his NT German translation were Hebrews, Jude, James then Revelation, (if memory serves me right).
Stretching out of the NT, the 1611 KJV included books of the Apocrypha.
Various early NT manuscripts included other orders and some additional books as well.
Rob
Stretching out of the NT, the 1611 KJV included books of the Apocrypha.
Various early NT manuscripts included other orders and some additional books as well.
Rob
37818
Well-Known Member
Yes. If the New Testament book is God-breathed, it was when it was authored. Now it's order of authorship may or may not be of importance, but can be.
1st & 2nd Corinthians.
1st & 2nd Peter.
1st, 2nd & 3rd letters of John.
Luke's gospel followed by the Acts of the Apostles.
1st & 2nd Thessalonians.
1st & 2nd Timothy.
James, Matthew
* Matthew, James
Matthew, 1st Corinthians.
Luke, 1st Timothy.
Mark, Colossians.
* The order the gospel accounts were written.
Mark, Matthew, Luke then John.
Mark, Luke, Matthew then John.
* Matthew, Mark, Luke then John.
Matthew, Luke, Mark then John.
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Baptizo
Member
I think the same standard should be applied to the OT since it is just as much God breathed as the NT. Job is the earliest authored book and in both Jewish and Christian canon Genesis comes first.
Jesus listed them in this order…
Luke 24:44 - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Job would be considered part of the psalms (The Writings) and is mentioned last.
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I'd say "is the order" (singular noun).
37818
Well-Known Member
37818
Well-Known Member
Job, Ezekiel mentions him after Daniel. The Jews regard Daniel as of one the writings. But our Lord refers to Daniel to be a prophet.
Re: Similar standards with regards to NT and OT
The Hebrew Scriptures present some interesting challenges to the notion of inspirational authorship.
(1) The Hebrew language was rudimentary at best at the time Moses composed the five books attributed to him. As the language grew, so did the text.
Changes in the alphabet, the Hebrew language itself and explanatory additions provide some evidence of a later editorial process that carried a divine authority associated with Moses.
(2) Unlike the NT epistles where authorship is clearly identified, many OT books do not claim a particular author. Even some of the prophetic books were probably compiled by later scribes associated with the prophet (consider Jeremiah!).
(3) Written in a time before paper and before books, scrolls were used and could be stored in a variety of manners. There was no table of contents for a scroll. The common, frequently accessed scrolls would be placed in a readily assessable area.
(4) In NT times, papyrus was beginning to loose favor and other forms of delivery were becoming available. A form of books became popular. The order of books began to become increasingly important.
The order of the OT differs significantly between Jewish and Christian texts. Even the numbering of verses differs (noted particularly in the Psalms).
(5) The book of Job does not claim an author. It is a wisdom book. It has characteristics of an epic poem and was probably maintained in an oral form for a long time prior to its written composition
Rob
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
IMO, no. And neither are the verse/chapter distinctions.
I have often noticed what I have heard called an “unfortunate chapter break”.
The originals were papyrus scrolls, which were expensive so they wrote tiny letters and no breaks or paragraph distinctions as we see in modern English.
I believe what we have as the 66 books of the Bible were gathered together by the end of the first century and that process of the church gathering the “canon” (measuring rod by which all documents were compared) was inspired by God Holy Spirit to preserve the written Word of God.
peace to you
I have often noticed what I have heard called an “unfortunate chapter break”.
The originals were papyrus scrolls, which were expensive so they wrote tiny letters and no breaks or paragraph distinctions as we see in modern English.
I believe what we have as the 66 books of the Bible were gathered together by the end of the first century and that process of the church gathering the “canon” (measuring rod by which all documents were compared) was inspired by God Holy Spirit to preserve the written Word of God.
peace to you
37818
Well-Known Member
The tenet of Holy Scripture is Holy Scripture was Holy Scriptures upon being written. And their original recipients knew it's human author or authors.
2 Timothy 3:16-17, All Scripture [is] God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work.
2 Peter 1:21, For prophecy was not borne at any time by [the] will of man, but holy men of God spoke being borne along by the Holy Spirit.
2 Timothy 3:16-17, All Scripture [is] God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work.
2 Peter 1:21, For prophecy was not borne at any time by [the] will of man, but holy men of God spoke being borne along by the Holy Spirit.
Huh?
I think what you just said was:
God inspired Scripture.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the specific ordering of Scripture into a compiled collection of writings does not carry the same inspiration character.
Neither does the formatting, the verse and chapter numbering, or the even the titles of the books.
These were all added afterwards for the benefit of later readers.
Rob