Sin and the Health Care Bill

[targus]

Lack of love, concern, sympathy and compassion for those who have no health care and need help. He is like the priest who "passed by on the other side," IMHO.

You are reading that into it.

He used the healthscare bill as an example of something that looks good upfront but proves to be otherwise in the long run.

The healthscare bill is proving to be just that.

Insurance premiums are going up and employers are dropping insurance coverage for their employees.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Lack of love, concern, sympathy and compassion for those who have no health care and need help. He is like the priest who "passed by on the other side," IMHO.

How do you feel about him?

I don't see how the Pastor demonstrated a "lack of love, concern, sympathy and compassion for those who have no health care." What I do see is his political views which carried over into his sermon which is stepping over the line. His tax status may be inquestion. His understanding of the issue may also be in question. However, I do not believed he "sinned" in offering his opinion. However, I agree with you there are several issues with Health care as it is in America. I don't think Obama's plan (actually more of a Palosi plan) is the answer either.

 

[KenH]

If they are so offended, as Ken suggested, maybe they should go to a place were their ears can be tickled.

Or preachers can stick to preaching the Word from the pulpit and leave their politicking to other places and events than a worship service to God.

 

[sag38]

Yep, one can't use a a government bill as a good illustration. The pastor did not use politics. He used the "truth." But, libertarians and liberals evidently don't like the truth.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Yep, one can't use a a government bill as a good illustration. The pastor did not use politics. He used the "truth." But, libertarians and liberals evidently don't like the truth.

"Truth" as seen from the pulpit is often based not on verifiable "truth" but percieved truth. Did the pastor provide a cost benefit ratio that is based on real numbers?

 

[targus]

"Truth" as seen from the pulpit is often based not on verifiable "truth" but percieved truth. Did the pastor provide a cost benefit ratio that is based on real numbers?

I don't think that he needs to.

He was providing an example of something that looks good up front but turns out not to be down the road.

As a result of the healthscare bill insurance premiums are going up and employers are dropping coverage provided to their employees.

IMO where his example fails is that the healthscare bill never looked good up front. :laugh:

 

[Thinkingstuff]

IMO where his example fails is that the healthscare bill never looked good up front. :laugh:

You and I agree there.

 

[webdog]

Yes, Sir!!!! We will be paying for the Health care bill----"in the long run"-----looking at the pastor's point from a preacher that has been preaching now for 25 yrs(me)-----his point was----when you sin you will pay for it in the long run(for years to come you will still be paying for the sin you sinned that particular point in time)---just like the Health care bill---we will pay for the health care bill for years to come

I agree with this. He wasn't mingling politics with the Word...he was using an analogy FROM politics to support the Word.

Only a blind liberal would find offense with this kind of analogy. I recall Jesus using plenty of non-biblical analogies and parables to point to biblical truth...I bet those same people here that object would have also had a problem with Him doing so.

The pastor is right. The healthcare bill sounds wonderful...UNTIL you actually get into it and start seeing the premiums rise like they are not to mention a whole slew of things that have not happened yet. He was spot on in his analogy.

 

[rbell]

Answer my question. Are you saying it is not patriotic for a country to take care of its citizens and have decent medical care for them??

How 'bout if folks take care of themselves...and then the small number left, we can talk about.

Lack of love, concern, sympathy and compassion for those who have no health care and need help. He is like the priest who "passed by on the other side," IMHO.

How do you feel about him?

The Good Samaritan didn't go and rob another person to care for the wounded man. Your misuse of the parable is noted, and summarily refuted.

These are easy words for someone who has their health care insurance paid for my others.

I have about as low a viewpoint of this healthcare disaster as anyone can--and I pay my own way, thank you.

I believe any pastor who uses the pulpit to espouse political viewpoints should not be tax exempt. Give up your tax exempt status and say anything you want!

We're in agreement...to a point: I would agree with you when it came to candidate endorsement or overt, church-sponsored political activity (not grass-roots effort). But "espouse political viewpoints" is far too vague and open to abuse. With your position, speaking against abortion or homosexuality becomes problematic.

 

[sag38]

A pastor can be very political in his sermons without jepordizing the tax exempt status of his church. This pastor did not endorse a political candidate but rather mentioned legislation which is perfectly acceptable with the IRS. Only in liberal's dreams would this call for the tax exempt status to be removed.

 

[Robert Snow]

Only in liberal's dreams would this call for the tax exempt status to be removed.

I feel that all churches should pay taxes, it would help the deficit and most churches can afford it.

 

[Salty]

IMO where his example fails is that the healthscare bill never looked good up front. :laugh:

They just made people think it looked good.

 

[rbell]

I feel that all churches should pay taxes, it would help the deficit and most churches can afford it.

Sheer lunacy.

You need to deal with church budgets before making such a silly statement.

Most churches aren't aflush in cash as you would think. You're out of touch if you believe this.

Furthermore, how is it gonna help the deficit? That's crazy talk. Those buffoons already spend more than is collected. If we send more, they're not going to apply it to the deficit--they're going to spend more, get addicted to the money, and increase the deficit.

You do realize, don't you, that churches are made up of people--people who have already paid taxes on their income, savings (!), gains, property, vehicles, gas, and whose death may be taxed in a few months. Why on earth would such a ridiculous idea benefit anyone?

Finally...if the government would learn to be a bit more like most churches, we wouldn't have the issues we have with our government. Maybe instead of taxing churches, they could learn from them.

Wow. Refuting that was like shooting fish in a barrel...but without the nasty gut-shrapnel.

 

[Alcott]

I believe any pastor who uses the pulpit to espouse political viewpoints should not be tax exempt. Give up your tax exempt status and say anything you want!

This thread was (I thought) introduced normatively, not in regard to the 501.c.3 tax exemption for charitable organizations angle. But I can't tell whether you have the idea wrong, or you're just saying any reference to a political issue whatsoever should disqualify a church from having such an exemption. But as it is in reality, any church or charitable organization can take a position on political issues. The only thing they cannot do is endorse or oppose candidates or parties. Churches can even affirm or degrade Obama, Palin, or others right now, as they are not announced candidates for any office. And definitely they can oppose a sitting president's policies-- as many liberal churches did with a guy named Bush. And incidentally, a few years ago did you say those churches against Bush's policies, or against the war efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan in particular, should lose their tax exemptions?

 

[sag38]

Maybe Mr. Snow should put his money where is mouth is and not take any tax breaks on his taxes. After all, if we all did that, it would help the deficit. What do you say Robert since you are so quick to take away a tax write off from me and many others who give to thier local church.

 

[Robert Snow]

Maybe Mr. Snow should put his money where is mouth is and not take any tax breaks on his taxes. After all, if we all did that, it would help the deficit. What do you say Robert since you are so quick to take away a tax write off from me and many others who give to thier local church.

The same tax write-off that is lost would affect everyone who attends a church, including me, so I would be just as "quick to take away a write off" as anyone else.

The only detrimental effect would be that some would not give as much since it would cost them more at tax time. It would seem that if someone was giving to the Lord, this would not matter.

 

[Salty]

... It would seem that if someone was giving to the Lord, this would not matter.

But money given to many churches do help the needy (not necessarily the greedy).

If churches did less, than the govt would have to do more -
Wait thats why liberals want to end church tax exemption...

 

[sag38]

The same tax write-off that is lost would affect everyone who attends a church, including me, so I would be just as "quick to take away a write off" as anyone else.

The only detrimental effect would be that some would not give as much since it would cost them more at tax time. It would seem that if someone was giving to the Lord, this would not matter.

Ok, if you really believe this way:
1. At your next business meeting make a proposal that your church accept no donations that will be used as a tax write off.
2. Set the example by not taking the write off yourself on any charitable donations that you may make.

 

[Robert Snow]

The same tax write-off that is lost would affect everyone who attends a 2. Set the example by not taking the write off yourself on any charitable donations that you may make.

In a sense I already do this. Since I give in cash, there is no record of my giving.

 

[SRBooe]

I've been looking for a post that shows how the new Obamacare is to fund abortions using taxpayer dollars, yet it has not yet been brought up.

Now, it has.

My retired senior citizen Mom at 80 years old just got here medicare supplement insurance jacked up about eight hundred bucks - because of the insurance companies bracing for the cost of Obamacare.

Yep, great program.

:tonofbricks: