Sin deniers verses sin confessors

[Judith]

Are you a sin confessor, or a sin denier?

What men teach how to excuse our sin. (Sin excusers)

we are all sinners
no one is perfect
we all sin every day
PMS
PTSD
some other supposed mental illness
no one can keep the commandments
we are weak
We are under grace not law
God is not done with me


What God says why there is no excuse. (Sin confessors)

1 Cor 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Gal. 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Eph.: 6
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

1 John 2:4

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If we are leaning on or pointing to any reason why we sin except that we willfully chose to sin (rebel) against God, we are sin deniers and it is impossible to biblically confess our sin.

 

[HankD]

Are you a sin confessor, or a sin denier?

What men teach how to excuse our sin. (Sin excusers)

we are all sinners
no one is perfect
we all sin every day
PMS
PTSD
some other supposed mental illness
no one can keep the commandments
we are weak
We are under grace not law
God is not done with me


What God says why there is no excuse. (Sin confessors)

1 Cor 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Gal. 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Eph.: 6
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

1 John 2:4

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If we are leaning on or pointing to any reason why we sin except that we willfully chose to sin (rebel) against God, we are sin deniers and it is impossible to biblically confess our sin.

1 John 1:9
NAB 1 John 1:9 If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing.

I like the New American Bible on this passage - confess (homologeo - to say the same thing, agree - acknowledge).

"Confess" is fine, "acknowledge" removes the nuance of a recounting our sins from a popish list of sins which we rattle off in a confessional.

homologeo in 1 john 1:9 is a present tense verb which we (the children of God) should do in the present tense.

HankD (a former cradle Catholic)

 

[kyredneck]

we are all sinners
no one is perfect
we all sin every day
PMS
PTSD
some other supposed mental illness
no one can keep the commandments
we are weak
We are under grace not law
God is not done with me

Well, there's truth concerning sin with all the above. Depends on how harsh you wish to judge others. You may condemn when all the while God is excusing. It's Christ that died in their stead. Has God changed since the old days?:

1 Bless Jehovah, O my soul; And all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless Jehovah, O my soul, And forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; Who healeth all thy diseases;
4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; Who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
5 Who satisfieth thy desire with good things, So that thy youth is renewed like the eagle.
6 Jehovah executeth righteous acts, And judgments for all that are oppressed.
7 He made known his ways unto Moses, His doings unto the children of Israel.
8 Jehovah is merciful and gracious, Slow to anger, and abundant in lovingkindness.
9 He will not always chide; Neither will he keep his anger for ever.
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins, Nor rewarded us after our iniquities.
11 For as the heavens are high above the earth, So great is his lovingkindness toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, So far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13 Like as a father pitieth his children, So Jehovah pitieth them that fear him.
14 For he knoweth our frame; He remembereth that we are dust.
15 As for man, his days are as grass; As a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; And the place thereof shall know it no more.
17 But the lovingkindness of Jehovah is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, And his righteousness unto children`s children;
18 To such as keep his covenant, And to those that remember his precepts to do them. Ps 103

1 Cor 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

The verses leading into that, and remember by type these were ALL redeemed with a strong hand from the house of bondage:

1 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 and did all eat the same spiritual food;
4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ.
5 Howbeit with most of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us make trial of the Lord, as some of them made trial, and perished by the serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them murmured, and perished by the destroyer.
11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come. 1 Cor 10

We're admonished not to do the things these did, which by invert means that we ARE perfectly capable of doing them and fall into that category "with most of them God was not well pleased". But there are those that take this to mean those which God is not pleased with are hell bound, which I totally reject.

1 John 2:4

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

And:

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 1 Jn 5

There's a whole lot of religious entities out there, supposedly Christian, that place heavy burdens grievous to be born on the backs of the flock.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Are you a sin confessor, or a sin denier?

What men teach how to excuse our sin. (Sin excusers)

we are all sinners

This is true. 1 John 1:8

no one is perfect

This is true of believers or there would be no ongoing sanctification, note Philippians 3:12

we all sin every day

Of course. But then again one can make this statement mean anything. One could make it mean 'setting up shop to live a sinful lifestyle daily' or 'we miss the mark somewhere daily, and confess our sins' - 1 John 1:9ff

PMS

Haven't had that.

PTSD

Even Jesus was distressed, Mark 14:32-33. Note also 2 Corinthians 4:8-9

some other supposed mental illness

Mental illness isn't any more sin than the flu.

no one can keep the commandments

This is true. We can obey them, but we will never 'keep' them as in never failing in them.

we are weak

Romans 15:1.

We are under grace not law

Yep. But this isn't license to sin.

God is not done with me

Thank God! That is where sanctification comes in; Romans 6:20-23; Hebrews 12:14; Hebrews 6:1ff

 

[rsr]

Too broad a brush. Yes, some use excuses to justify their sin. But it is not out of line to remember that we are all sinners, redeemed only by the grace of God, and should deal gently, if possible, with sins of others because we are subject to sin ourselves.

I would question lumping those who have mental (or physical) illness into the category of "sin deniers."

 

[Van]

In the eyes of God, just how many sins have you, as a born anew, saved by grace, justified believer committed. If you say more than zero, you are teaching another gospel. 1 John 3:5-6.

But, in our own eyes, if we say we do not sin, the truth is not in us, 1 John 1:8.

To teach one side of the equation and not the other is grave error.

 

[Judith]

Well, there's truth concerning sin with all the above. Depends on how harsh you wish to judge others. You may condemn when all the while God is excusing. It's Christ that died in their stead. Has God changed since the old days?:

1 Bless Jehovah, O my soul; And all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless Jehovah, O my soul, And forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; Who healeth all thy diseases;
4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; Who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
5 Who satisfieth thy desire with good things, So that thy youth is renewed like the eagle.
6 Jehovah executeth righteous acts, And judgments for all that are oppressed.
7 He made known his ways unto Moses, His doings unto the children of Israel.
8 Jehovah is merciful and gracious, Slow to anger, and abundant in lovingkindness.
9 He will not always chide; Neither will he keep his anger for ever.
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins, Nor rewarded us after our iniquities.
11 For as the heavens are high above the earth, So great is his lovingkindness toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, So far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13 Like as a father pitieth his children, So Jehovah pitieth them that fear him.
14 For he knoweth our frame; He remembereth that we are dust.
15 As for man, his days are as grass; As a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; And the place thereof shall know it no more.
17 But the lovingkindness of Jehovah is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, And his righteousness unto children`s children;
18 To such as keep his covenant, And to those that remember his precepts to do them. Ps 103



The verses leading into that, and remember by type these were ALL redeemed with a strong hand from the house of bondage:

1 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 and did all eat the same spiritual food;
4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ.
5 Howbeit with most of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us make trial of the Lord, as some of them made trial, and perished by the serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them murmured, and perished by the destroyer.
11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come. 1 Cor 10

We're admonished not to do the things these did, which by invert means that we ARE perfectly capable of doing them and fall into that category "with most of them God was not well pleased". But there are those that take this to mean those which God is not pleased with are hell bound, which I totally reject.



And:

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 1 Jn 5

There's a whole lot of religious entities out there, supposedly Christian, that place heavy burdens grievous to be born on the backs of the flock.

God NEVER excuses sin. He paid for it. Men excuse and deny sin.

 

[Judith]

This is true. 1 John 1:8



This is true of believers or there would be no ongoing sanctification, note Philippians 3:12



Of course. But then again one can make this statement mean anything. One could make it mean 'setting up shop to live a sinful lifestyle daily' or 'we miss the mark somewhere daily, and confess our sins' - 1 John 1:9ff



Haven't had that.



Even Jesus was distressed, Mark 14:32-33. Note also 2 Corinthians 4:8-9



Mental illness isn't any more sin than the flu.



This is true. We can obey them, but we will never 'keep' them as in never failing in them.



Romans 15:1.



Yep. But this isn't license to sin.



Thank God! That is where sanctification comes in; Romans 6:20-23; Hebrews 12:14; Hebrews 6:1ff

A sin denier justifying denying is the master of deniers.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I'm having a problem with severity of the insinuation of the OP.

 

[TCassidy]

So am I.

 

[kyredneck]

God NEVER excuses sin. He paid for it. Men excuse and deny sin.

....honest your honor, I wuz thinkin of b. when I said it.

1.
a. To make allowance for; overlook or forgive: Please excuse the interruption.
b. To grant pardon to; forgive: We quickly excused the latecomer.

...ya know, sumthin along the lines of:

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin. Ro 4

 

[Scarlett O.]

we are all sinners......no one is perfect.....we all sin every day
no one can keep the commandments.....we are weak.....We are under grace not law.....God is not done with me

All of those are true statements. None are license to sin. I've said those thing in Sunday School to emphasize to my class how ashamed we should be and how important repentance and turning away from sin is.

PMS
PTSD
some other supposed mental illness

I personally know two schizophrenics. Neither use their grave illness for an excuse to sin. One of them, because he cannot always distinguish reality from non-reality occasionally has to ask people if what he is thinking is godly, true, false, or improper. He suffers great shame.

I have a first cousin who is bi-polar. For years, until she changed doctors and got proper meds, she would avoid people because she was ashamed of her condition and didn't want to shame her family.

For decades, I suffered from genuine PMS and yes, sometimes my tongue was bitter towards those I loved. I was deeply ashamed and spent a lot of time sobbing to God asking his forgiveness for my words. But then along came cancer and I was gutted like fish and I don't have that problem anymore. But the shame was real.

 

[Iconoclast]

13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy

 

[Sapper Woody]

It's impossible for me to use my PTSD as an excuse for sin, as the actions I take while in an episode aren't sin. If I hurt someone, I apologize and feel bad for it. But it isn't sin, as it's not a conscious act.

As an example, I was in the middle of an anxiety/PTSD attack shortly after getting out. I was hunched over a piece of machinery, in my mind. A buddy saw me, and got concerned. He didn't know not to touch me in that state, and put a hand on my shoulder. As a reaction, I wrapped his arm in a sort of standing arm bar with my left arm, and with my right I punched him.

I immediately came out of it, and felt horrible. Fortunately, he was a boxer, and could take it. The point is though, I literally had no control over my response. While I felt bad and apologized, it was not my fault. It just was.

People who have a legitimate mental health issue sometimes can't distinguish between reality and imagination. In that state, it's impossible to sin; because you aren't doing it.

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[Aaron]

I'm having a problem with severity of the insinuation of the OP.

You shouldn't. Judith is absolutely right. There is no excuse.

None.

Nada.

Zip. Zero. Zilch.

And now you know the absolute and utter dependence upon the grace of God to even acknowledge one's sin.

Before the throne of God above
I have a strong and perfect plea
A great High Priest whose name is love
Who ever lives and pleads for me
My name is graven on His hands
My name is written on His heart
I know that while in heav’n He stands
No tongue can bid me thence depart

When Satan tempts me to despair
And tells me of the guilt within
Upward I look and see Him there
Who made an end of all my sin
Because the sinless Savior died
My sinful soul is counted free
For God the Just is satisfied
To look on Him and pardon me

Behold Him there, the risen Lamb
My perfect, spotless Righteousness
The great unchangeable I AM
The King of glory and of grace
One with Himself, I cannot die
My soul is purchased by His blood
My life is hid with Christ on high
With Christ my Savior and my God

 

[Scarlett O.]

You shouldn't. Judith is absolutely right. There is no excuse. None. Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch.

Is it just me, Aaron.....but over the past 14 years when every encounter I have with you is your disagreeing with me......I can't help but wonder? Is it just me? Am I not wearing enough deodorant and no one here is telling me!? LOL!

I think it's just me.

Because I never said there was an excuse for sin.

 

[Revmitchell]

It's impossible for me to use my PTSD as an excuse for sin, as the actions I take while in an episode aren't sin. If I hurt someone, I apologize and feel bad for it. But it isn't sin, as it's not a conscious act.

As an example, I was in the middle of an anxiety/PTSD attack shortly after getting out. I was hunched over a piece of machinery, in my mind. A buddy saw me, and got concerned. He didn't know not to touch me in that state, and put a hand on my shoulder. As a reaction, I wrapped his arm in a sort of standing arm bar with my left arm, and with my right I punched him.

I immediately came out of it, and felt horrible. Fortunately, he was a boxer, and could take it. The point is though, I literally had no control over my response. While I felt bad and apologized, it was not my fault. It just was.

People who have a legitimate mental health issue sometimes can't distinguish between reality and imagination. In that state, it's impossible to sin; because you aren't doing it.

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Boy I tried to make this point about our soldiers coming home some months back and was excoriated by a great mob of posters as trying to justify sin. I am saddened that our soldiers coming home do not have more help. Quite frankly any and all health care should be absolutely free for anyone serving in combat for the rest of their lives. We need to take care of our soldiers and try to understand their plight.

 

[Revmitchell]

Is it just me, Aaron.....but over the past 14 years when every encounter I have with you is your disagreeing with me......I can't help but wonder? Is it just me? Am I not wearing enough deodorant and no one here is telling me!? LOL!

I think it's just me.

Because I never said there was an excuse for sin.

Nope you didn't. As a far as the deoderant thing goes I was not going to say anything but now that you mention it have you ever tried "Sure"?

 

[kyredneck]

In that state, it's impossible to sin; because you aren't doing it.

20 But if what I would not, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. Ro 7

Reckon Paul had PTSD?

 

[Sapper Woody]

20 But if what I would not, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. Ro 7

Reckon Paul had PTSD?

It's very possible. Personally, as a singer/warrior, I relate very well with David. Looking at his mood swings, and understanding his history, I very strongly believe that he had PTSD. In fact, I've been trying to use his Psalms in my times of "distress".

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