Sin in heaven?

[Ulsterman]

It is often taught that there can be nothing sinful in heaven. Passages such as Habakkuk 1:13, "Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity", and Rev 21:27, "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life."

My question is this (and this is a genuine enquiry), if no sinful thing may appear in the presence of God how come Satan may stand there (Job 1,2 & Rev 12:7-9)?

 

[canadyjd]

It is often taught that there can be nothing sinful in heaven. Passages such as Habakkuk 1:13, "Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity", and Rev 21:27, "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life."

My question is this (and this is a genuine enquiry), if no sinful thing may appear in the presence of God how come Satan may stand there (Job 1,2 & Rev 12:7-9)?

Well, we know all sinners are judged at the judgment seat of Christ. That seems to be in heaven.

Perhaps the verses speak of that final condition, when all sin is punished, all evil is thrown into the lake of fire, and true peace reigns in heaven?

peace to youraying:

 

[sag38]

While Satan may be seen standing there, I can promise you that he won't remain. Seems in the book of Revelation that I see him cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Dr. Timo]

It is often taught that there can be nothing sinful in heaven. Passages such as Habakkuk 1:13, "Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity", and Rev 21:27, "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life."

My question is this (and this is a genuine enquiry), if no sinful thing may appear in the presence of God how come Satan may stand there (Job 1,2 & Rev 12:7-9)?

I believe the Habakkuk verse is talking about God not looking on our sin because of His Sons payment. He also turned away from His Son on the cross because He became sin for us. The verse in Rev.21:27 is talking about the new heaven and the new earth after all sin has been dealt with. Satan never appears there.:thumbsup: :godisgood: :jesus:

 

[Jim1999]

Satan is a fallen angel, messenger of God, and not humankind. He stands before God, but not necessarily in His presence. Similar to when God spoke to Moses...it may have been His voice, but not His actual presence.

I think there is more scripture against sin, than even hints for it.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Aaron]

The passage in Job does not say anything about Heaven, nor is there any mention of angels. When we present ourselves every Sunday morning, Satan comes in among us.

Revelation is full of symbolism, and what John saw as a sign. (To think there will be war in Heaven . . . how absurd*.)

*Not calling anyone here absurd, just the thought. Like the Negro spiritual says, I ain't gonna study war no mo'!

 

[Grasshopper]

And if the nature of angels doesn't change, whats to keep some from falling away again in the future.

 

[Marcia]

It is often taught that there can be nothing sinful in heaven. Passages such as Habakkuk 1:13, "Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity", and Rev 21:27, "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life."

My question is this (and this is a genuine enquiry), if no sinful thing may appear in the presence of God how come Satan may stand there (Job 1,2 & Rev 12:7-9)?

Satan can stand before God but he doesn't dwell there.

I think the Hab passage is speaking to God's holiness and that he does not tolerate sin. Of course, he sees people and people are sinners, so I don't think it literally means he cannot look on anyone sinful. He just does not abide it.

 

[OldRegular]

The passage in Job does not say anything about Heaven, nor is there any mention of angels. When we present ourselves every Sunday morning, Satan comes in among us.

Revelation is full of symbolism, and what John saw as a sign. (To think there will be war in Heaven . . . how absurd*.)

*Not calling anyone here absurd, just the thought. Like the Negro spiritual says, I ain't gonna study war no mo'!

I agree in general with your explanation, particularly your remarks about Revelation. I also think that Jim presents a good explanation of the events presented in Job: "He [Satan] stands before God, but not necessarily in His presence. Similar to when God spoke to Moses...it may have been His voice, but not His actual presence."

 

[Allan]

Satan can stand before God but he doesn't dwell there.

I think the Hab passage is speaking to God's holiness and that he does not tolerate sin. Of course, he sees people and people are sinners, so I don't think it literally means he cannot look on anyone sinful. He just does not abide it.

I agee with you in both parts.

Who will tell God that if He commands one to stand before that we are gods enough to contradict Him and say 'Oh No Sir! You can't have that before you" - This is ONLY refering to the fact that God can do and have happen what He chooses in accordance with His purpose and plan.

The last part "I" would not say "I don't think" but would state that in context it 'doesn't state' God can't literally look on anyone sinful. Scripture is filled with instances where God in fact does. So you are right in that God does not abide sin or maybe another way to say it is that He does not look upon sin with any pleasure nor tolerance because He is holy.



I do want to address the apsect of Satan coming before God. This does not tell us they came into heaven though it can imply such. However what we do know is that where God tells us to meet Him, we can know that He is there. So it could have been any particular place that God has chosen give audiance to these angelic beings.

Now having said that we can also know that sin has touched heaven, which is why God must create a New Heaven and New Earth. We know that according to Jesus He saw satan fall like lightening. Fall from where?
Scripture tells us that he was one of the 'covering' cherubs (Ezk 28:14).
Those same Cherubs that we see 'covering' the Mercy Seat on the Arc of the Covenant. We also see these Cherubs in Rev at the throne of God.
The passage also states was upon the Holy Mountain of God. In the next passage Verses 16 and 17 states that God will cast him down from the Holy Mountain of God. (This is what Jesus spoke of stating He saw Satan fall like lightening)

This is just something I was thinking of while pondering JD's post - We know that Satan had persuaded 1/3 of the angelic beings to follow him. This from the passage that states Satan drew down with him 1/3 of the stars of 'Heaven'. (so in a spiritual sense is this not a war in heaven where God's will is done and yet they were in rebellion going after another). Just something to think about.

 

[Allan]

"He [Satan] stands before God, but not necessarily in His presence. Similar to when God spoke to Moses...it may have been His voice, but not His actual presence."

I can agree with you here brother. Yet I also think that he 'could have been' in God's presence but that does not 'have to' mean His presense in Heaven but here on earth. God's presense is where ever He chooses to be. And I do beleive that God's presense was in the burning bush because that is why Moses was told to take off his shoes, for the ground on which he stood was holy. What made it holy? God's presence. (in my opinion)

 

[Ulsterman]

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and insights. These have been quite helpful.

 

[Marcia]

6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. Job 1.6

This is repeated again in Job 2.1
These "sons of God" are angels but are they fallen or good angels? Whoever they are, Satan comes with them to "present themselves before the Lord," so I don't think this is on earth.

The passage implies that angels must go before God; perhaps even fallen angels at that time did this. This shows God's sovereignty. Maybe this is what Satan does to get permission to do what he wants?