Sin Nature versus Law of Sin

[loDebar]

"re" means "again" which acknowledges that a previous natural generation has occurred but another generation which is supernatural must occur in order to see or enter the kingdom of heaven.

I know what it means, I am asking why do you use it . Have we been generated in the same manner before? after all "again" is the same not a different type of generation

It is similar to this, what things in Heaven are Reconciled by the Cross?

Col 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

 

[The Biblicist]

I know what it means, I am asking why do you use it . Have we been generated in the same manner before? after all "again" is the same not a different type of generation

Re- is proper as both the physical and spiritual are generative or life giving in nature. Hence, there are two life giving events. The re- or second life giving event is spiritual rather than physical but it is still a second life giving event in the life of a saved person.

 

[The Biblicist]

Col 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Reconciliation is both horizontal (earth) and vertical (heaven) because sin has caused disfellowship between men and other men and between men and God.

 

[loDebar]

Reconciliation is both horizontal (earth) and vertical (heaven) because sin has caused disfellowship between men and other men and between men and God.

How are things in Heaven reconciled by the cross? What things ?

 

[The Biblicist]

How are things in Heaven reconciled by the cross? What things ?

It appears that the tabernacle/temple on earth was patterned after something in heaven.

 

[loDebar]

Tabernacles cant be saved, or reconciled by the cross, His death no the Cross

 

[The Biblicist]

Tabernacles cant be saved, or reconciled by the cross, His death no the Cross

The taberncale on earth is a type of something in heaven and so I am not saying there is a literal tabernacle in heaven but the antitype is in heaven


Heb. 9: 11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us

Heb 9:23 ¶ It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

The antitype in heaven seems to be pictured in Revelation 4-5

Sin occurred first in heaven by Lucifer before sin entered the world through Adam. It would seem therefore that sin defiled heaven as it did this world in some sense.

 

[percho]

Will the regeneration of the Spirit to the spirit eventually regenerate the whole of the man?

Another thought.

for we have known that the law is spiritual, and I am fleshly, sold by> (I prefer, under) the sin; Rom 7:14 YLT

Have ye not known that your body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit in you, which ye have from God? and ye are not your own, for ye were bought with a price; glorify, then, God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's. 1 Cor 6:19,20 YLT

Why is it your, body, that is the sanctuary, if it is the, spirit, that has been regenerated?
Does it relate back to my first question?

 

[loDebar]

RE deemed

The taberncale on earth is a type of something in heaven and so I am not saying there is a literal tabernacle in heaven but the antitype is in heaven


Heb. 9: 11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us

Heb 9:23 ¶ It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

The antitype in heaven seems to be pictured in Revelation 4-5

Sin occurred first in heaven by Lucifer before sin entered the world through Adam. It would seem therefore that sin defiled heaven as it did this world in some sense.

Satan and other were expelled as spiritual beings. Heaven is not defiled but many are missing.
Job 38:7 reflects the expression of two distinctions.

 

[The Biblicist]

Will the regeneration of the Spirit to the spirieventually regenerate the whole of the man?

Glorification occurs in the resurrection or catching up of the body at the Second Advent. Hence, it is not regeneration that makes glorification, but a supernatural creative act by God at the Second Advent.

for we have known that the law is spiritual, and I am fleshly, sold by> (I prefer, under) the sin; Rom 7:14 YLT

Have ye not known that your body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit in you, which ye have from God? and ye are not your own, for ye were bought with a price; glorify, then, God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's. 1 Cor 6:19,20 YLT

Why is it your, body, that is the sanctuary, if it is the, spirit, that has been regenerated?
Does it relate back to my first question?

Your body is the house/temple/tabernacle of your spirit. Your spirit has been brought into union with the Spirit of God and thus the Spirit in union with your spirit indwells your body. Regeneration demonstrates God redeemed you but God did not regenerate your soul and body, but regeneration of your spirit is like the down payment and God will eventually redeem your body from the power of sin in the resurrection.

In the meantime between regeneration of your spirit and resurrection of your body, your body is still under the power of the law of sin (Rom. 7:14). This principle of corruption will not be removed from your body until the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:53-54).

Moreover, between regeneration of your spirit and the future glorification (removal of sin's power) from your body at the resurrection, you have power by the indwelling Spirit to overpower the law of sin in your body so that you can glorify God "in your body". However, that power is not found in YOU (regenerate spirit or will power - Rom. 7:18) but in submitting to the power of the indwelling Spirit of God (Rom. 8:9-27).

 

[Yeshua1]

No sinner can do good without new birth in God's sight and the new birth is writing the law of God upon the hearts which is simply a metaphor which means God gives them a disposition to love what he loves and hate what he hates. Even then no regenerated man can do good except empowered by the Holy Spirit.

Yes, as think paul is describing what happens to us once saved, but trying to live still by the flesh and not by the Holy Spirit in us!

 

[The Biblicist]

RE deemed


Satan and other were expelled as spiritual beings. Heaven is not defiled but many are missing.
Job 38:7 reflects the expression of two distinctions.

Those scripture in Hebrews demand that there is an antitype in heaven that needs to be cleansed. What do you do with those explicit statements?

 

[loDebar]

Give me the reference ,please. I recall it but cant respond .We know Hebrews is comparing Law and Grace.

 

[loDebar]

Found it. Hebrews 9

But you have it backwards, the earthly Holy of Holies is a type of the Heavenly Holy of Holies
The Heavenly is better than the earthy set up for the sacrifice and the Law

but these verse were speaking of sinners

Col 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

sinners are reconciled,

 

[The Biblicist]

Found it. Hebrews 9

But you have it backwards, the earthly Holy of Holies is a type of the Heavenly Holy of Holies
The Heavenly is better than the earthy set up for the sacrifice and the Law

That is precisely what I did say - please reread my post. Now look at these scriptures again and they explicitly say that the antitype in heaven needed to be cleanse:

Heb. 9: 11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us

Heb 9:23 ¶ It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

The antitype in heaven seems to be pictured in Revelation 4-5

Read the underlined portions carefully as they are saying there is something in heaven of which the earthly tabernacle was but a type as the earthly was patterned after the heavenly reality and that heavenly things themselves needed to be purified by better things than what purified the earthly type.

 

[loDebar]

That is precisely what I did say - please reread my post. Now look at these scriptures again and they explicitly say that the antitype in heaven needed to be cleanse:

Heb. 9: 11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us

Heb 9:23 ¶ It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

The antitype in heaven seems to be pictured in Revelation 4-5

Read the underlined portions carefully as they are saying there is something in heaven of which the earthly tabernacle was but a type as the earthly was patterned after the heavenly reality and that heavenly things themselves needed to be purified by better things than what purified the earthly type.

Yes the real item is in Heaven.
Types, or represtative are on earth

But sinners are affected by the cross , the reconciliation of sinner affects Heaven

 

[percho]

What does it mean; Through a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands?