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sin nature
- Thread starter athanaseusperez
- Start date
athanaseusperez
New Member
Go preach to the men at the prisons and ask them the reason why they raped a girl . They WONT tell you that it was for power , control , or dominance . That MIGHT be part of it , but if you ask them why they did it , they will tell you is because they (for being discreet's sake) couldnt control their lusts . Basically , they wanted sex . Yes, they might feel weak, etc. but they flat out want sex , and wont do it in its proper way with a wife , because they let their flesh control their actions, thats why they use force .
Lets drop the rape example for a lighter example . Teenagers for example , a young couple has natural drives that they let overcome them because they put themselves in wrongful situations and allow themselves to be tempted . You tell me when they get caught . Ask them why they did it . Their answer wont be , " well , its because I wanted dominance over my girlfriend "or vice versa . It will be , " because I just felt like it , I was caught up in the moment " That is by popular vote , a more logical answer . You know that , but for arguments sake , it seems like you get too philosophical in your thinking and not practical .
Satan didnt convince Adam , maybe his wife did who was actually deceived . Its not that sinful nature that allows us to justify wrong doing but its out choosing wrong over right . Just what Adam did .
Lets drop the rape example for a lighter example . Teenagers for example , a young couple has natural drives that they let overcome them because they put themselves in wrongful situations and allow themselves to be tempted . You tell me when they get caught . Ask them why they did it . Their answer wont be , " well , its because I wanted dominance over my girlfriend "or vice versa . It will be , " because I just felt like it , I was caught up in the moment " That is by popular vote , a more logical answer . You know that , but for arguments sake , it seems like you get too philosophical in your thinking and not practical .
Satan didnt convince Adam , maybe his wife did who was actually deceived . Its not that sinful nature that allows us to justify wrong doing but its out choosing wrong over right . Just what Adam did .
1 Cor 2:14, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Clearly if the natural man cannot know the things of God then he has a nature which is dead to God. The nature of God is a Spirit. The natural man, being dead to God, is in a state of sin. Sin is seperation from God. See Gen.3.
To say that man is born neutral flies in the face of the entire record of Scripture front to back.
See Romans 2:14-15. See also Romans 5:15. For as by one man's disobedience were many made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Athan says,"Its not that sinful nature that allows us to justify wrong doing but its out choosing wrong over right."
We are sinners by nature. We have inherited the natural bent to sin from our first disobedient father, Adam. "...many were made sinners,..."
Clearly sir, your concept is not Biblical.
In His service;
Jim
Clearly if the natural man cannot know the things of God then he has a nature which is dead to God. The nature of God is a Spirit. The natural man, being dead to God, is in a state of sin. Sin is seperation from God. See Gen.3.
To say that man is born neutral flies in the face of the entire record of Scripture front to back.
See Romans 2:14-15. See also Romans 5:15. For as by one man's disobedience were many made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Athan says,"Its not that sinful nature that allows us to justify wrong doing but its out choosing wrong over right."
We are sinners by nature. We have inherited the natural bent to sin from our first disobedient father, Adam. "...many were made sinners,..."
Clearly sir, your concept is not Biblical.
In His service;
Jim
ChristianBigDog
New Member
Romans 7:17-20
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the Baptist Board! I pray that we will be a blessing to you, and you to us.
As for Romans 7:14-25 being a Christian experience, what business has the Christian being a Jew under the Law and being frustrated when he fails to keep the Law without the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit? I pray that your Christian experience is nothing like the experience of the unregenerate Jew in Rom. 7:14-25, but if it is, read and believe Rom. 1:1 – 7:13 and your life will be changed forever. And then read Rom. 8:1-4!
Romans 8
Deliverance from Bondage
1. Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
3. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
4. so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (NASB, 1995)
And is someone righteous because they do righteousness, or do they do righteousness because they are righteous. The context of the verse answers that question for you:
The one who practices righteousness is different internally from the one who doesn't practice righteousness. The righteous doer has been fathered by God, and so God's seed resides within him. He's a different sort now, and so his actions are different.
Those who are dead in sin, or the devil's children, or followers of the prince of the power of the air, or by nature objects of God's wrath, do evil deeds out of their evil hearts. They are internally (or by nature) different than God's own reborn children.
It's out of the heart (or nature) that the deeds come.
Man has been under the curse of sin since Adam and Eve fell. Specifically the earth was cursed and would no longer freely give up it's food.
Genesis 3
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
We were no longer the children of God. Mankind was placed under the lordship of the god of this world. We are God's creation but not His children
John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
According to the scriptures we are all sinners. Yes, we are born with this nature. It is just that little children are unaware that when they are pulling a tantrum or taking away another childs toy or saying no to mommy that it is sin. I won't say that little children are saved because that would lead to our being able to lose our salvation at the age of accountability. I will say that if a child dies in ignorance due to youth etc. God will have mercy and not hold them accountable. Once a erson is old enough to understand that they are a sinner, they realize that they have sinned and are in need of a savior.
Remember that I said we were under the lordship of the devil. It is because before knowing Christ that we are already condemned. We need to be saved from hell because we are already going there. This is why we are called adopted sons' of God. We weren't His to start with.
John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Ephesians 1:5
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Genesis 3
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
We were no longer the children of God. Mankind was placed under the lordship of the god of this world. We are God's creation but not His children
John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
According to the scriptures we are all sinners. Yes, we are born with this nature. It is just that little children are unaware that when they are pulling a tantrum or taking away another childs toy or saying no to mommy that it is sin. I won't say that little children are saved because that would lead to our being able to lose our salvation at the age of accountability. I will say that if a child dies in ignorance due to youth etc. God will have mercy and not hold them accountable. Once a erson is old enough to understand that they are a sinner, they realize that they have sinned and are in need of a savior.
Remember that I said we were under the lordship of the devil. It is because before knowing Christ that we are already condemned. We need to be saved from hell because we are already going there. This is why we are called adopted sons' of God. We weren't His to start with.
John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Ephesians 1:5
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
paidagogos
Active Member
Romans 7:14-25 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
paidagogos
Active Member
That all men are born sinners is one Bible doctrine that can be proven empirically.
paidagogos
Active Member
So you don't know what the Pelagian Heresy was? Well, I think you pretty much believe it. Check out this website for a simple introduction:
http://www.britannia.com/history/bb418.html
paidagogos
Active Member
Really? Is that so? Where does Scripture specifically condemn the sin of gluttony? It only specifically uses the word glutton twice (Deuteronomy 21:20 and Proverbs. 23:21) in the KJV to my knowledge. Each time it is used along with drunkenness.
The Hebrew word זלל (transliterated as zalal), that is translated glutton, is found only eight (8) times in the OT and it has more to do with the ideas of vileness, worthlessness, insignificance or squandering. (It can also be used with the idea to shake or flow.) So, where is your Scriptural condemnation? What does Scripture mean when it uses this word. Do you know what gluttony is? Where does Scripture condemn it?
Since 40-60% of America is obese, I think people try to single out this gluttony as a sin to excuse their own sins. This is a whipping boy, nothing more.
paidagogos
Active Member
Want to learn about Pelagius? Check out the following: http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-05/npnf1-05-20.htm#P2798_1083670
Romans 5
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Because of the Holy Spirit:
John 16
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
No, it's the fear of being judged. That's why we slow down when we see the highway patrol car.
Acts 24
24 And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ.
25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.
Because both are simultaneously true.
HankD
paidagogos
Active Member
The context is dealing with the idea that nothing can hide or separate us from God. David is NOT speaking of man’s moral nature here. He is referring to God’s wondrous work of creation or possibly the wonder of conception and birth. Biologically, man is a marvelous creation. One never gets over the awe of studying this fabulous and amazing biological creature. All of God’s creatures from the amoeba to the whale are marvelous works but the idea in Psalm 21:14 is of a creature set apart or separate. (BTW, this sets the animal rights activists on their heads.) Man is more than mere animal.
The purpose of Psalm 21:14 has nothing to do with man’s moral or spiritual nature. The point, however, is that even the darkness of the womb could not hide David from God. Personally, I understand this to mean that God knew all about David even while he was undergoing gestation and development in his mother’s womb. It was God Who designed, implemented and controlled this awesome and amazing process.
Man, although originally created in God’s image, has a depraved, sinful nature. He is spiritually dead and can do no good (Proverbs 21:4) until faith brings regeneration and a new creation. Your reference does NOT say otherwise.
Amen!! I also believe that we are totally depraved. If we wern't we could have something to do with our own salvation. The reason we have to totally depend on God is because we cannot do anything to improve our stature with God except to repent. That way God gets what He wants and deserves....Glory!!