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Sin Nature?
- Thread starter Amy.G
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I get it from what you said. You said that humans are unable to impart life to their children, therefore all children are born spiritually dead.
This is not scriptural. We receive our soul and spirit from God, not our parents.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto GOD WHO GAVE IT.
Num 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O GOD, THE GOD OF THE SPIRITS OF ALL FLESH, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?
And if you read this story, God did not punish the congregation for the sins of Korah.
We also get our soul from God.
Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, AND HAVE OUR BEING; as certain also of your own poets have said, FOR WE ARE ALSO HIS OFFSPRING.
We get our body from our parents, we get our soul and spirit from God. We receive them pure (Ecc 7:29), but corrupt them through sin.
That's right. How does that make Christ born spiritually dead?
What, you're thinkin' that human souls are in a guff somewhere waiting for a body to inhabit? No. Our bodies and souls are the offspring of Adam. Corrupt from conception. No less from God, anymore than an apple is from God. But it is not born of God.
Well, you are quoting the party line now, but how about showing scripture that says our souls come from our parents, because I can show you more that says our soul comes from God.
Yes, those who are born AGAIN.
That means a second time, doesn't it?
The soul is spiritual, not physical. When the rich man died in Luke 16, his body was buried, but his soul went to hell.
By the way, Calvin got his theology primarily from Augustine. The Catholics teach the soul is created by God at conception.
Verses that show the soul is received from God.
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Jer 38:15 So Zedekiah the king sware secretly unto Jeremiah, As the LORD liveth, THAT MADE US THIS SOUL, I will not put thee to death, neither will I give thee into the hand of these men that seek thy life.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; AND MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL.
The soul is spiritual, it is our image of God. The soul does not cease to exist when the body dies.
Now you show me even one verse of scripture that even remotely hints we receive our soul from our parents.
No, the reason he was born of a virgin was to prove he was born of God, and not man.
Mary being a virgin did not mean she was without sin, after Jesus was born she gave a sin offering. She also called Jesus her savior. Saved from what? Her sins.
It was the false teaching that sin is inherited through the flesh that caused the Catholics to invent the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, that Mary was conceived without original sin and lived without sin. But the scriptures teach Mary was a sinner like the rest of us.
Jesus's body was exactly like ours, he was tempted in all points as we are, but without sin.
His soul and spirit was not the same, we are created, he is eternal and has existed forever.
Thanks winman for the clarification. I had that all wrong in my head.
convicted1
Guest
I bolded the last two sentences in this statement to ask you a couple/few questions to further understand your position on this subject.
Does a baby have a "dead" soul(seperated from God by sin) upon birth, maybe even upon conception?
Do you think that babies get this "fallen state" from their parents, and therefore, the logical conclusion is that any baby is "made"(formed in the womb,I mean), let alone "born" a sinner?? If they get the "fallen state" from their parents, this makes them sinners inside the womb!!
Would you please elaborate upon these questions I have asked you? Thanks in advance for any and all replies to this post!
i am I AM's!!
Willis
Extent of "The Fall"
The whole creation still groans and travails from the effects of SIN--controlled by the prince of the power of the air.
By one man sin entered and death by sin. All have sinned and come short of the glory of Glory. There are none righteous, not one.
We are running out of graveyard space. Mausoleums are doing a brisk business.
It is appointed unto mankind once to die, then comes the judgement.
Having a nature to sin does not mean we are born sinning. A duck is not born quacking nor swimming, but can soon do both without any outside influence. Some would say: instinctively or inherently.
The total depravity of mankind was a pivotal salvation doctrine since long before Calvin and Arminius. Of ourselves, we either have a spark of good to choose God's plan or we do not. It cannot be both or either/or. Salvation is of the Lord.
The names were in The Book before the foundation of the world, along with the slaying of the Lamb of God.
This world will pass--melt with fervent heat along with all the works.
We look for a new heaven and a new earth--where righteousness dwells.
Even so, come Lord Jesus.
Selah,
Bro. James
The whole creation still groans and travails from the effects of SIN--controlled by the prince of the power of the air.
By one man sin entered and death by sin. All have sinned and come short of the glory of Glory. There are none righteous, not one.
We are running out of graveyard space. Mausoleums are doing a brisk business.
It is appointed unto mankind once to die, then comes the judgement.
Having a nature to sin does not mean we are born sinning. A duck is not born quacking nor swimming, but can soon do both without any outside influence. Some would say: instinctively or inherently.
The total depravity of mankind was a pivotal salvation doctrine since long before Calvin and Arminius. Of ourselves, we either have a spark of good to choose God's plan or we do not. It cannot be both or either/or. Salvation is of the Lord.
The names were in The Book before the foundation of the world, along with the slaying of the Lamb of God.
This world will pass--melt with fervent heat along with all the works.
We look for a new heaven and a new earth--where righteousness dwells.
Even so, come Lord Jesus.
Selah,
Bro. James
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quickened1
New Member
The sin nature is passed down from Adam through the blood.
"And the LORD God....breathed into his nostrils the breath of life...."
"Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh." (Deut 12:23)
The spirit is linked with the blood or whatever is flowing through the veins. It could be water (Adam before the fall), blood (Adam after the fall) or water and blood (Jesus).
Water is a "type" of what Adam (B4 fall)had flowing through his veins because it was water. Adam was sober. The 6 water pots at the marriage feast picture Adam before the fall. He had the original spirit of man and it is typified by water.
Fermented grape juice is a "type" of the blood that Adam (Aft fall) had running through his veins . Adam became drunk spiritually. His judgement became impaired. This is how God sees man. Despite the evidence man says there is no God. God offers man salvation in the form of a free gift yet man rejects it. It's in man's best interest to follow God yet he refuses and thinks he'e better off without God. Who would make decisions like this? It would have to be someone that is drunk. A drunk will make a fool of himself. Blood is toxic and we are told not to eat or drink it. Dosen't someone end up getting drunk off of the blood of the saints in Rev.? (Rev.17:6)
Unfermented grape juice is the "type" of the blood of Christ. This grape juice is called "the pure blood of the grape" (Deut 32:14). The water that ran out of Jesus tells us that Jesus did not inherit the sin nature. The water links him to being a son of man who had the spirit of man in it's original form like Adam (B4 fall). It is proof that he is the second or last Adam. His blood wasn't human blood. It is the blood of God and he purchased the church with it. (Acts 20:28)
Concerning the water pots in John 2, Jesus turning the water in the pots to wine (this is most likely supernatural grape juice) indicates that the Lord will put his Holy Spirit in man,a permanent indwelling. The good wine that was saved until last shows that the Holy Spirit is superior to the original spirit of man which Adam had when he was created.
"And the LORD God....breathed into his nostrils the breath of life...."
"Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh." (Deut 12:23)
The spirit is linked with the blood or whatever is flowing through the veins. It could be water (Adam before the fall), blood (Adam after the fall) or water and blood (Jesus).
Water is a "type" of what Adam (B4 fall)had flowing through his veins because it was water. Adam was sober. The 6 water pots at the marriage feast picture Adam before the fall. He had the original spirit of man and it is typified by water.
Fermented grape juice is a "type" of the blood that Adam (Aft fall) had running through his veins . Adam became drunk spiritually. His judgement became impaired. This is how God sees man. Despite the evidence man says there is no God. God offers man salvation in the form of a free gift yet man rejects it. It's in man's best interest to follow God yet he refuses and thinks he'e better off without God. Who would make decisions like this? It would have to be someone that is drunk. A drunk will make a fool of himself. Blood is toxic and we are told not to eat or drink it. Dosen't someone end up getting drunk off of the blood of the saints in Rev.? (Rev.17:6)
Unfermented grape juice is the "type" of the blood of Christ. This grape juice is called "the pure blood of the grape" (Deut 32:14). The water that ran out of Jesus tells us that Jesus did not inherit the sin nature. The water links him to being a son of man who had the spirit of man in it's original form like Adam (B4 fall). It is proof that he is the second or last Adam. His blood wasn't human blood. It is the blood of God and he purchased the church with it. (Acts 20:28)
Concerning the water pots in John 2, Jesus turning the water in the pots to wine (this is most likely supernatural grape juice) indicates that the Lord will put his Holy Spirit in man,a permanent indwelling. The good wine that was saved until last shows that the Holy Spirit is superior to the original spirit of man which Adam had when he was created.
Many disagree with me on this topic, because I believe man is a tripartite being made in the image of God. He is body, soul, and spirit:
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5:23)
--That being the case how do they differ?
The soul is the seat of the emotions. It is the will. The ability to choose.
The spirit is that part if man that can communicate with God, that part of man which differentiates him from animals. Animals have a soul, but no spirit.
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:26)
--This is physical death: when the spirit leaves the body.
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)
--In some inexplicable way the spirit and soul are joined together. The Word of God is able to divide them asunder. Thus one would assume the reference in James would include both soul and spirit.
As long as person (baby or not) has life its soul is alive. The separation of its soul/spirit from its body is death.
Its separation of its spirit from God is spiritual death.
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; (Ephesians 2:1)
--They were dead. But now they are alive. How? The Holy Spirit made them alive when they trusted Christ.
That is true. They are sinners from the womb, as we all are according to Psalm 51:5 and 58:3 and many other passages. It is the very reason that we need to be born again. We have been born once, physically, as sinners. Now we need another birth--spiritually, to be born into God's family.
If you are born once, you will die twice.
If you are born twice, you will die once.
You must be born again!
You are welcome.
I'm sorry, but that's about the strangest thing I've ever heard. I see nothing scriptural about it.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Huh???????
DHK, our views are similar, though not exact. I agree we are body, soul, and spirit. We do inherit our body from our parents, that is obvious, we resemble our parents. And our bodies have natural lusts and desires. It is also obvious we inherit the curse from Adam, as all die.
But our soul and spirit come from God, the scriptures say so.
Where we differ is saying man is born spiritually dead. That is an illogical impossibility, nothing can be dead that was not once living. Rocks are not considered dead, they are non-living. We say a stillborn child is born dead, but it had life for a time.
I believe we are born alive and innocent as Adam and Eve were created. This is not unorthodox, many of the early church fathers before Augustine held this view.
The scriptures support this. Did the prodigal son begin dead? No, he began alive until he willingly left his father's home and went astray. It was when he willingly fell into sin that he became filthy and died. He joined himself to a citizen of that country (Satan). Even so, he was able to repent and return to his father. When he did, his father said he was alive again.
1 Peter 2:25 and many other scriptures support my view:
1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but now are RETURNED unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your SOULS.
A sheep that did not first belong to a flock cannot go astray, and you cannot RETURN to Jesus if you were not first with him.
This view was not unorthodox among many early church fathers, but became so after Augustine.
But our soul and spirit come from God, the scriptures say so.
Where we differ is saying man is born spiritually dead. That is an illogical impossibility, nothing can be dead that was not once living. Rocks are not considered dead, they are non-living. We say a stillborn child is born dead, but it had life for a time.
I believe we are born alive and innocent as Adam and Eve were created. This is not unorthodox, many of the early church fathers before Augustine held this view.
The scriptures support this. Did the prodigal son begin dead? No, he began alive until he willingly left his father's home and went astray. It was when he willingly fell into sin that he became filthy and died. He joined himself to a citizen of that country (Satan). Even so, he was able to repent and return to his father. When he did, his father said he was alive again.
1 Peter 2:25 and many other scriptures support my view:
1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but now are RETURNED unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your SOULS.
A sheep that did not first belong to a flock cannot go astray, and you cannot RETURN to Jesus if you were not first with him.
This view was not unorthodox among many early church fathers, but became so after Augustine.
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