Sin Unto Death

The fact that they lied to the Holy Ghost is enough evidence to prove to me they were not Christians.

To be Christian means to be Christ-like. Would Christ lie?
The fact that the last deed in this world they did was evil and a good tree cannot produce evil fruit is further proof they were not of Christ.

 

Once again, you have no scriptural proof that they were not believers...you only have your pre-conception of how a believer acts, and you have developed your theology agound that pre-conception.

Why would God kill a couple of unbelievers for lying to Him. Unbelievers live their whole life as a lie before God all the time. People should be droping dead from this sin all around us every day.

Max

 

There is no evidence that they were Christians. It was not until the night of Jesus' arrest that the 11 found out about Judas.

 

You can produce no evidence that they were not believers. All of their actions (assembling with apostles, selling property as the others to give to the Lord's work) points to them being believers. And God's actions in the account points to the fact that they were Chastised for their actions ( as a father would his children). A similar account took place in 1 Cor. 11 with those that were killed for the actions in relation to the Lord's Supper.

Max

 

Got me!:laugh: Actually, I've heard both sides of the argument, but I have to admit that I'v not studied it out on my own. I think we can agree on one thing and that is that they were judged right there on the spot.

 

Amen! But don't tell any body that we can agree on one thing.

I have to go for a little while...see ya soon!

Max

 

I won't tell! See ya later.

 

Amen Bro. Lacy,

A good handling of the Word!

Max

 

Since Annanias and Sapphira were not named in the 4th Chapter as being among the believers, it can just as well be said that in Chapter 5 we see them sneaking in amongst the sheep unawares.

Besides, if they were filled with the Holy Ghost as we see the Believers were in Chapter 4, they would not have lied to the Holy Ghost. They would have been yielded over to His will.

Also, in Acts 4 verse 34 and 35 we read:

As many as were possessors of land sold it and brought the prices and laid them at the apostles feet.

Acts 5 is shows an entirely different mindset than those in one accord in Chapter 4

 

I will give an example of where they might not of been saved.

Mat 19:21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

Maybe they were just in the process of being saved and taking the steps that Jesus laid out for them to do. But in the process, they got greedy and decided to sell all they had but keep part of the money for themselves instead of giving it all to the poor as Jesus said to do.

 

I do not see Chapter 5 saying the couple were among those Believers in Chapter 4. They did not have the same mind as the Believers who were all of one mind to sell property and bring the price to the Apostles for distribution as needed.

Acts 4:31 (KJV) And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Acts 4:32 (KJV) And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any [of them] that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Acts 4:33 (KJV) And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Acts 4:34 (KJV) Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Acts 4:35 (KJV) And laid [them] down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Acts 4:36 (KJV) And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, [and] of the country of Cyprus,
Acts 4:37 (KJV) Having land, sold [it], and brought the money, and laid [it] at the apostles' feet.

In the next Chapter, we read:
Acts 5:1 (KJV) But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Acts 5:2 (KJV) And kept back [part] of the price, his wife also being privy [to it], and brought a certain part, and laid [it] at the apostles' feet.
Acts 5:3 (KJV) But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? {to lie to: or, to deceive}
Acts 5:4 (KJV) Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Acts 5:5 (KJV) And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

Why has satan filled thine heart... how can one who is filled with the Holy Ghost have his heart filled with satan? Can satan fill the believer's heart?

The fact that Ananias and Sapphira both agreed with one another to bring part of the price instead of the whole price proves that they were not amongst the Believers in the previous Chapter... for we read there

Acts 4:32 (KJV) And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any [of them] that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

The whole multitude were of one heart. They all agreed that they needed to sell the property and bring the full price to the Apostles.

Ananias and Sapphira just saw God blessing these people and had to try to get in on the blessings. They were not among the Believers in Chapter 4.

Those in Chapter 4 were of one heart and in agreement, Ananias and Sapphira were not of the same heart.

 

Psalms 19:13 (KJV) Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous [sins]; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. {the great: or, much}

This is one of two verses cited as proof that presumptuous sins are not wilful sins. There is nothing like taking a text out of context and making it a pre-text to fit your own bias. What does the word presumptuous mean>
I "presume" you think it means somehow "without thinkihg." But I don't know how you arrive at that conclusion. To presume is to know. It has the attitude of taking deliberate action. Why did the Psalmist put an adjective infront of "sins" instead of saying "from all sins?" Wouldn't he wanted to be kept back from all sins, not just "presumptuous sins?" Have you done a word study on this particular word: "presumptuous?"

It comes from the Hebrew "zed" or "zade' " which means proud or arrogant. The Psalmist is praying that the Lord would keep him from all proud and arrogant sins. Why? It is pride that leads a man to make the choice to sin. The verse is teaching the very opposite of what you are suggesting it is. Lucifer chose to rebel against God because his heart was lifted up in pride. We choose to sin, often because we are proud and arrogant. The Psalmist was praying to the Lord that He would keep him from this sin of pride--presumption. It has nothing to do with sin that is not willful. There is no such thing. All sin is wilful. You sin because you want to; not becasue you are forced to.

 

All sin is not willfull.

If you tell someone you will be somewhere tomorrow at a certain time, but something happens between now and then and you are unable to keep that commitment.

Now, your statemet that you would be somewhere at a certain time has just became a lie. Did you intend to lie? No, you intended to be where you said you would be.

All sin is not willfull.

 

Be not rash with thy words. Don't make a promise that you cannot keep.

 

The Biblical answer to your dilemna:

James 4:13-14 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
James 4:15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

 

Yes, we ought to say, 'If the Lord will...'. but how many times have we said 'I will,' or 'Tomorrow so and so is coming over.' and it has not happened.

Now, the lie was not willfull, it was unintentional... but a lie nonetheless.

Not all sin is willfull.

 

Sin is defined as transgression of the law.
If sin is a transgression of the law; do we not deliberately choose to break the law. Even the local police will say that ignornace of the law is no excuse. When you break God's law you do with your intention to do wrong.