Sincerity

[Inspector Javert]

That's too bad. It's clear you called me a heretic, then a liar. Both are against BB rules.

See Steve?

I never once called him a "heretic"............not once...

But, he's not interested in debating the Scriptures...he wants to silence those who oppose him. See how he works?

They're like Democrat liberals....when you can't win a debate on it's merits...just get "offended" and huffy about it...

That's what P4T is doing in this thread (as if it bothered him one wit whether I considered him a "heretic" or not)...

He couldn't care less what I thought. He just wants to find something he can report to the mods about you.

 

[Skandelon]

So you disagree salvation is 100% of God?

I agree that salvation is 100% of God, I just don't fall for the erroneous presumption that a gift has to be irresistibly applied for the giver to receive full credit for giving the gift.

 

[preacher4truth]

Let me put it another way since you say God controls our heart and we don't...if we cannot gain salvation through Jesus why did he go through all that he did? When God created man he could have MADE us love him...but no he wanted us to love him by our own free will! He does not control our hearts until we ask him to! We have control of our hearts! I don't think you'll ever get it so I'm out!

Oh, I get it.

Is salvation 100% of God?

We can't love God by our own free will, the natural man cannot please God, Romans 8:8 and the natural mind is at enmity with God (See Ephesians 2:3, Romans 8:7; Eph. 2:16; nor can the lost change his or her ways; Jer. 13:23 .

God causes us to walk in His ways and to desire to do His will. See Ezekiel 36:26, 27; Php. 2:13. He gets all the glory in salvation.

We aren't saved via being sincere, and I don't, nor does Scripture base any part of our salvation on humans, up to and including sincerity. We only believe due to God's power, we get no credit, all of salvation is due to Him.

 

[convicted1]

I agree that salvation is 100% of God, I just don't fall for the erroneous presumption that a gift has to be irresistibly applied for the giver to receive full credit for giving the gift.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

 

[convicted1]

Oh, I get it.

Is salvation 100% of God?

We can't love God by our own free will, the natural man cannot please God, Romans 8:8 and the natural mind is at enmity with God (See Ephesians 2:3, Romans 8:7; Eph. 2:16; nor can the lost change his or her ways; Jer. 13:23 .

God causes us to walk in His ways and to desire to do His will. See Ezekiel 36:26, 27; Php. 2:13. He gets all the glory in salvation.

We aren't saved via being sincere, and I don't, nor does Scripture base any part of our salvation on humans, up to and including sincerity. We only believe due to God's power, we get no credit, all of salvation is due to Him.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[preacher4truth]

See Steve?

I never once called him a "heretic"............not once...

But, he's not interested in debating the Scriptures...he wants to silence those who oppose him. See how he works?

They're like Democrat liberals....when you can't when a debate on it's merits...just get "offended" and huffy about it...

That's what P4T is doing in this thread (as if it bothered him one wit whether I considered him a "heretic" or not)...

He couldn't care less what I thought. He just wants to find something he can report to the mods about you.

Don't worry friend, I won't and never considered reporting you. It's clear to see you've broken the rules. It's up to honest mods/admins to do what's right, not me.

By the way I've been debating Scriptures, you're hung up on ad hominem even up to this post.

 

[Skandelon]

We have control of our hearts? Where'd you find that in the bible?

I wouldn't say "control" because that carries the wrong connotation for some. But clearly we are responsible for the condition of our hearts...as typically the 'heart' is known as the seat of the emotion or will of man.


1 Corinthians 7:37
But whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity but having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well.

Heb. 3:8
"do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness"

1 Chronicles 22:19
Now set your mind and heart to seek the LORD your God.

1 Chronicles 28:9
"And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind,

2 Chronicles 6:38
if they repent with all their mind and with all their heart in the land of their captivity to which they were carried captive, and pray toward their land, which you gave to their fathers, the city that you have chosen and the house that I have built for your name,

Psalm 26:2
Prove me, O LORD, and try me; test my heart and my mind.

Matthew 22:37
And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

 

[Skandelon]

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Amen............

 

[preacher4truth]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thanks brother, you've grown by leaps and bounds, thanks to God.

BTW it looks like Dennis Allen is still employed! LOL!!!! We're doomed another year! :laugh:

 

[Inspector Javert]

We have control of our hearts? Where'd you find that in the bible?

From passages such as these to name a few:
Eze 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Exd 8:32
And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.
Exd 8:15
But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
Exd 7:23
And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also.
Exd 25:2
Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering.
Jer 31:21
Set thee up waymarks, make thee high heaps: set thine heart toward the highway, even the way which thou wentest: turn again, O virgin of Israel, turn again to these thy cities.
Eze 28:6
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
Dan 6:14
Then the king, when he heard these words, was sore displeased with himself, and set his heart on Daniel to deliver him: and he laboured till the going down of the sun to deliver him.
Hsa 7:6
For they have made ready their heart like an oven, whiles they lie in wait: their baker sleepeth all the night; in the morning it burneth as a flaming fire..................

Those might be some of the passages he got that from.

 

[Inspector Javert]

I wouldn't say "control" because that carries the wrong connotation for some. But clearly we are responsible for the condition of our hearts...as typically the 'heart' is known as the seat of the emotion or will of man.


1 Corinthians 7:37
But whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity but having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well.

Heb. 3:8
"do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness"

1 Chronicles 22:19
Now set your mind and heart to seek the LORD your God.

1 Chronicles 28:9
"And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind,

2 Chronicles 6:38
if they repent with all their mind and with all their heart in the land of their captivity to which they were carried captive, and pray toward their land, which you gave to their fathers, the city that you have chosen and the house that I have built for your name,

Psalm 26:2
Prove me, O LORD, and try me; test my heart and my mind.

Matthew 22:37
And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

And ^^^these^^^^ passages too!! LOL :laugh::laugh:

 

[stevewm1963]

If we did not have control of our hearts we would not have the ability to sin! Is sin of God? NO! God cannot sin! Nor would he direct us to sin! We have control of our hearts until we give it to God or satan!

 

[stevewm1963]

Calvanism is nothing more than taking the bible and twisting it into a lie!

Matthew 5:17-19

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Protestant]

I agree that salvation is 100% of God, I just don't fall for the erroneous presumption that a gift has to be irresistibly applied for the giver to receive full credit for giving the gift.

Post # 62: If you can provide a quote from me that contradicts what I've said, then you'd actually have an argument.

Post # 52: Even a sincerely repentant and believing individual deserves Hell. God's choice to save those who believe and repent is ALL OF GRACE. No one is saved because they deserve to be saved. Those who ask for forgiveness do not deserve to be forgiven just because they ask for it and they certainly don't deserve to be made an heir of God's Kingdom. That is GRACE ALONE.

Here we have the crux of the matter in contention.

He preaches unregenerate man’s free will ability to repent and believe.

In order to justify the biblical teaching that salvation is 100% the doing of God and zero % the doing of man, he then adds the unbiblical teaching that the sincerely repentant and believing individual may still be sent to Hell. If that individual is not sent to Hell then salvation is all of grace.

Skandelon’s errors are two-fold.

First, he is dishonest in his assessment of man’s role in salvation.

He teaches man’s faith and repentance is his natural work which he then presents to God.

Scripture teaches faith and repentance is God’s supernatural work of grace by which He gifts the Elect.

Therefore, Skandelon DOES NOT teach salvation is 100% of God’s grace.

His second grievous error is that which teaches the repentant believer can justly be sent to Hell, since he does not ‘deserve’ salvation.

Had Skandelon known that repentance and faith are the unrepentant gifts of God to those He DOES NOT WILL TO CONDEMN, Skandelon would never have made such a theological blunder.

For his information ALL unregenerate men deserve and await justice.

However, ALL repentant and believing men HAVE ALREADY received mercy and grace.

Those who have received mercy and grace are NO LONGER the objects of God’s wrath and justice.

Rather these supernatural spiritual gifts PROVE the eternal LOVE of God toward their recipients.

ALL repentant and believing men can be ASSURED that Christ has already taken their deserved punishment, fully satisfying divine justice.

God WILL NOT punish them twice, despite the ravings of 'Inspector' Clouseau.

 

[preacher4truth]

If we did not have control of our hearts we would not have the ability to sin! Is sin of God? NO! God cannot sin! Nor would he direct us to sin! We have control of our hearts until we give it to God or satan!

Oh, and not one Scripture reference. Why not?

According to you man is in sovereign control of his heart, God cannot save until man gives it to God. And man must be 'sincere' too. Man, man, man, man, man.

Yes, we see what you're emphasizing: 'man is in control'. Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Jerry Savelle, Joyce Meyer, Creflo Dollar, Jesse DuPlantis, Paula White and other false teachers also teach the same things.

Wonder what Scripture says? Well, let's just say it contradicts your teachings steve.

Scripture teaches that mans heart is in the control of God, Proverbs 21:1, Ezekiel 36:26ff and more.

 

[preacher4truth]

Calvanism is nothing more than taking the bible and twisting it into a lie!

Matthew 5:17-19

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Not one of these Scriptures support your accusations or premise.

Wonder why?

 

[preacher4truth]

Notice those who are heavy ladened. A lot of people love their sins and aren't burdened by them, Brother winman. They have no desire to come to HIm. They love their sins, and in fact, quite a few baost about them.

Consider the total context brother Willis, as in Christ only revealing to whom He wills, then the call (Matthew 11:25-27).

 

[Winman]

Brother, read closely what you are posting. You're posting that God really wants to save someone, but their free will ties His hands up. Do you believe it to be this way? Mankind can, and does, tie God's hands up?

Wow, Willis, two years ago you would have answered this question in a heartbeat.

YES, men tie God's hands. God calls and beckons, he does everything he can to get a man to come to him for salvation, but men refuse to come.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Did Jesus say he desired and willed to save the people of Jerusalem? Would they let him?

You would have answered this yourself a short time ago, I am amazed you could forget.

 

[Skandelon]

he then adds the unbiblical teaching that the sincerely repentant and believing individual may still be sent to Hell.

I never said a believing repentance individual WOULD be sent to hell, I said they still deserve it. They didn't earn mercy or grace by repentance and faith. Faith and repentance never merit salvation. Please carefully read what I write before making such claims. Thanks

Skandelon’s errors are two-fold.

Since you haven't got it right yet should I presume the rest of this post is based on false information too?

He teaches man’s faith and repentance is his natural work which he then presents to God.

Can you quote where I've ever said this? I'm not even sure I know what this means.

Scripture teaches faith and repentance is God’s supernatural work of grace by which He gifts the Elect.

Therefore, Skandelon DOES NOT teach salvation is 100% of God’s grace.

See, here is your problem, you are confounding two issues. You are confusing faith in God for Salvation and Salvation itself. Man can trust God to save him, but whether he is saved or not is totally dependent on God.

His second grievous error is that which teaches the repentant believer can justly be sent to Hell, since he does not ‘deserve’ salvation.

Oh, you think you deserve heaven, do you?

 

[Skandelon]

And ^^^these^^^^ passages too!! LOL :laugh::laugh:

All conveniently ignored.