Singing "New" Older Songs

[Dr. Bob]

Love the Getty's performance and melody of "Before the Throne of God Above". I thought how wonderful to have a "new" hymn with such spiritual depth.

Then found it was written by Charitie Lees Bancroft in Ireland in 1863 and included in Bishop Ryle's Spiritual Songs and in Spurgeon's Our Own Hymn Book

So while it was "new to me" and with a "new" melody, it is truly an old classic!

 

[annsni]

Yep - the Getty's just did the cover for it. It was actually written by Charles Lees Bancroft and I have Vikki Cook as an author as well - I wonder if she maybe did the modern arrangement or something? That is from the CCLI info.

I do love when old hymns are brought back, modernized a little bit and brought into the rotation in worship at church. I also LOVE some of the new hymns that have been written recently and savor the great theology in them. What we sing isn't just a song but needs to carry the truth of God in it as well and I find a good hymn to do just that.

 

[rlvaughn]

It was actually written by Charles Lees Bancroft and I have Vikki Cook as an author as well - I wonder if she maybe did the modern arrangement or something? That is from the CCLI info.

One post of the song on YouTube puts it this way:

Original Words by Charitie Lees Bancroft
Alternate Words and Music by Vikki Cook

Apparently Cook wrote a tune for this text; I am not sure what alteration she made in the word.

 

[Jerome]

Apparently Cook wrote a tune for this text; I am not sure what alteration she made in the word.

The only change I've found is, the original author wrote (also in Spurgeon's hymnal):

Behold Him there ! The bleeding Lamb !

Within the Vail (Charitie Lees Smith)
Our Own Hymn-Book (comp. Charles Spurgeon)

while MacArthur's church sang instead:

Behold Him there, the risen Lamb

Is there some weighty theological reason for changing what she wrote?

If you flip back a couple of pages, you'll see Charitie Lees Smith specifically instructed that her lyrics not be altered:

"The author will make but one, it is hoped, reasonable, request, namely, that those who are disposed to reproduce any of the following pieces, will do so without altering the form in which, after consideration, the writer has thought it best to leave them."

 

[Jerome]

It was actually written by Charles Lees Bancroft

Her name was Charitie, not Charles.

 

[Dr. Bob]

I was right. Charitie. Whew. Thought we might get into the trans gender discussion banned here.

 

[Dr. Bob]

BEHIND THE SONG: Before the Throne of God Above

 

[MennoSota]

Indelible Grace has rearranged a number of the great hymns of the faith. I suggest going to youtube and listening.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Heading there. I love the old English folk melodies and am working with many that have great words. But also love "new" tunes that seem to give "new" life to great old hymns.

 

[MennoSota]

An old hymn with new arrangement. This song was sung by 300 strong at my nieces funeral. The rafters were shaking from the worship as we cried out for God's healing grace.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Heading there. I love the old English folk melodies and am working with many that have great words. But also love "new" tunes that seem to give "new" life to great old hymns.

It is possible to sing When I survey the wondrous Cross to the tune of the folk song O Waly, Waly (aka 'The Water is Wide').
It works very well.

I have also heard Amazing Grace sung to the tune of House of the Rising Sun. That IMHO works less well.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Yes. As long as the meter is the same, you CAN use different tunes.

On some, you just shouldn't.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

Heading there. I love the old English folk melodies and am working with many that have great words. But also love "new" tunes that seem to give "new" life to great old hymns.

In some cases that works really well, even when the "standard" is an excellent tune already. Our choir has sung fine new tunes in place of such wonderful melodies as those for "Search Me Oh God" (Maori melody) and "Be Still My Soul" (Finlandia), and others. Some don't work as well. I've heard at least four tunes for "Jesus, Lover of My Soul", and IMO only the Welsh "Aberystwyth" is worthy of Charles Wesley's prayerful lyrics.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Here's a super favorite of mine (love the group). Thought they were singing a new song and found it was originally written in "shaped-notes" in 1877.

 

[rlvaughn]

In some cases that works really well, even when the "standard" is an excellent tune already.

I like trying hymns with different tunes of the same meter. It is enjoyable for a change, even when we prefer it with the "standard" tune that we feel it is "supposed" to go with. Several years ago was surprised to hear "Amazing Grace" with William Bradbury's tune BROWN -- which usually is found with Phebe Brown's "I love to steal awhile away." I really enjoyed the difference, even though I wouldn't like it as a permanent change.

I've heard at least four tunes for "Jesus, Lover of My Soul", and IMO only the Welsh "Aberystwyth" is worthy of Charles Wesley's prayerful lyrics.

Simeon B. Marsh's MARTIN is standard around here with "Jesus, Lover of My Soul," but ABERYSTWYTH is a great tune!

 

[OnlyaSinner]

Our hymnal has both. "Martin" is a fine tune, but I would call it serviceable while labeling "Aberystwyth" as majestic.

 

[Covenanter]

Here's a super favorite of mine (love the group). Thought they were singing a new song and found it was originally written in "shaped-notes" in 1877.

Absolutely beautiful -

As we travel through the desert
Storms beset us by the way
But beyond the river Jordan
Lies a field of endless day

[Chorus:]
Further on still go further
Count the milestones one by one
Jesus will forsake you never
It is better further on

Oh my brother are you weary
Of the roughness of the way?
Does your strength begin to fail you
And your vigour to decay?

[Chorus]

At my grave oh still be singing
Though you weep for one that's gone
Sing it as we once did sing it
It is better further on.

[Chorus]

 

[Covenanter]

another verse

Jesus, Jesus will go with you,
He will lead you to the throne,
He who dyed His garments for you,
And the winepress trod alone.

 

[rlvaughn]

Here's a super favorite of mine (love the group). Thought they were singing a new song and found it was originally written in "shaped-notes" in 1877.

A good song very nicely done by the Alaska String Band. Have been hearing this song as long as I can remember. It is in the edition of The Sacred Harp book that we use. The words are a bit different but go back to the same source. When I prepared the companion book for the 2012 edition of The Sacred Harp, the oldest printing of the words I found was in 1805 in the Lexington Collection. The tune's origin was more elusive and I finally labeled it "Arranged [for The Sacred Harp] by R. C. Lowry in 1923. He obviously got it from an earlier source, and it may be the 1877 one that Dr. Bob mentions (I suspect it is in one of the Ruebush-Kieffer books, but didn't find it).

The words we sing are:

1. Dark and stormy is the desert,
Thro' which pilgrims make their way,
Just beyond this vale of sorrow,
Lies the fields of endless day.

Refrain:
Farther on, but how much farther?
Count the milestones one by one,
Jesus will forsake us never,
It is better farther on.

2. There on flow'ry hills of pleasure,
Lie the fields of endless rest;
Love and joy peace forever,
Reign and triumph in each breast.

 

[Covenanter]

A good song very nicely done by the Alaska String Band. Have been hearing this song as long as I can remember. It is in the edition of The Sacred Harp book that we use. The words are a bit different but go back to the same source. When I prepared the companion book for the 2012 edition of The Sacred Harp, the oldest printing of the words I found was in 1805 in the Lexington Collection. The tune's origin was more elusive and I finally labeled it "Arranged [for The Sacred Harp] by R. C. Lowry in 1923. He obviously got it from an earlier source, and it may be the 1877 one that Dr. Bob mentions (I suspect it is in one of the Ruebush-Kieffer books, but didn't find it).

The words we sing are:

1. Dark and stormy is the desert,
Thro' which pilgrims make their way,
Just beyond this vale of sorrow,
Lies the fields of endless day.

Refrain:
Farther on, but how much farther?
Count the milestones one by one,
Jesus will forsake us never,
It is better farther on.

2. There on flow'ry hills of pleasure,
Lie the fields of endless rest;
Love and joy peace forever,
Reign and triumph in each breast.

I've ordered the CD - thanks for telling us about it.
Laura has an exquisite voice.