Slave Reparations

[Joseph_Botwinick]

If they are still paying them for the Nazi atrocities, then yes. I do. If there is some other atrocity since then in the recent history that they are being punished for, then no, I don't. Any other questions.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
So no, I would have to say that Jewish people do need, desire, or deserve reparations or affirmative action.

Thank You,

Joseph Botwinick

Just noticed my mistake. But alas, it is too late to edit my post. So I shall correct it. The preceeding should read: "So no, I would have to say that Jewish people do not need, desire, or deserve reparations or affirmative action".

 

[Justified]

FOR THE RECORD:

I do not believe, nor do I support Reparations, affirmative action, or any other way the tells me, a tax paying citizen of this here United States of America, who I have to hire, rent to, eat with, go to church with, or be friends with.

I paid for my freedoms with my hard earned taxes.

And all these actions do, is to promote racism!!!

The very thing that they are suppose to stop?

 

[Major B]

Originally posted by InHim2002:
I am the only person who has voted so far that thinks reparations should be paid - a question for all those who voted no:

do you feel that the Jews should be paid reparations by the Germans for their treatment during WWII?

After all, that was over 50 years ago - almost no current German taxpayer is in anyway responsible for the treatment of Jews in the 1940's....

1. That was 50 years ago, not 150.

2. Some of the victims are still alive.

3. As bad as slavery was, it was nothing compared to the systematic murder of an entire race.

 

[Gunther]

I suppose the Federal government sending many white boys to their death in the civil war wasn't enough for some people.

I family lines didn't even come here until after 1900. So, I should pay too shouldn't I?

 

[Pete Richert]

I resonate with Bob, Ph.D, on 55 year old white male being the most discriminated agaist, via popular culture or political correctness. I would actually up him one by saying that 18-25 year old males are the worst of the worst. Not only do we inherit all the white male type targets, but we also don't get the benefit of wisdom from age, but are sterotyped as alcholic, tactless, womanizing, etc.

However, and a big however, I simply DO NOT BELIEVE that in actual street life and/or job/education opportunity we are disgrimnated agaist as much as Blacks in this country. Part of the reason we are such as easy target on TV is we are not threatened by it (because it day to day life it is not true). People will often assume that which ever group gets to make fun of the other group, they are the group in power. This was certainly the case in france 400 years ago. But in today's policatlly correct culture, that was turned on its head. Blacks can make fun of whites that they can't dance, but no such comment should be made of blacks on any level. But I don't think that demonstrates that whites can't dance. It more demonstrates are relativly ease to take ourselves lightly, because we are not threatened by it and are secure.

Whites males hold almost all positions of power, are most of the CEO, still dominate secondary education (with woman)(I mean above the difference in simple population statistics) despite all the scholorships, affirmative action, etc.

The only group that I think in some ones has caught up and excelled our women, and only in education since they actually dominate the colleges and universities now and are doing more so every year. But even then that is a limited scope.

I think some of the sterotype of Blacks as now on par as whites comes from more rural communities. And there is a good reason. The blacks they see then to have made it, and/or have much different motivations then others. If you live in the suberbs, all your going to see our blacks in the suburbs and they are the wealthy and educated ones. But the MAJORITY of blacks live in the inner city and there life is a much different picture. I encourage all to go visit sometime.

Oh, I am not huge on slave Reparations and am more open though not such a fan of affirmative action either. However, I don't really take it as strong evidence that you guys reject it on the basis that YOU will make your own way. Your white. It simply doesn't mean they same thing since if you try hard enough, you probably will get a job and advance. The same is not true of Blacks in all cases.

 

[Rosebud]

I am a 55-year old white male, the MOST PREJUDICED AGAINST group in America's politically correct culture today.

Sorry Dr. Bob, I highly DOUBT that. Sorry but I'm going to have to agree with someone else and say that you have some racial issues YOU need to deal with.

It sounds as if you're one of those "people" who thinks you're being treated unfairly if blacks or other minorities get any type of help. Lord help you if one black person gets a job in a place and there are 1000 caucasians there already.

PERSONALLY, I think that there are soo many other things out there to be of concern rather than people being so focused on slavery.

People are saying that it's the African Americans who won't let it (slavery) die, but it's several of the conversations I've seen on HERE lately that seem to keep the hate burning for people. Should Christians not be concerned with bringing souls to the Lord and strengthening their personal lives through him.

There are one or two I've seen post so ferverently about slavery being legal that it makes me wonder if they don't stand in the pulpit and say that "Slavery should never have been abolished".

OBVIOUSLY, it was GOD'S will that slavery be abolished through whatever means or else it would STILL be around the way it APPEARS a couple of select southerners here would have liked it.

Just my two cents.

To cover this topic..no I do not think reparations should be paid since those who endured the grief won't receive it. I DO however agree with affirmative action...ESPECIALLY in a time when so many minorities are being passed over who DO have the skills required. Why is the assumption made that a minority given a job through affirmitive action doesn't meet or exceed the qualifications for that position?

Sorry but some of you guys DO need to wake up and smell the roses. Black people who are higher qualified than whites ARE often looked over due to their skin color. How do I know..experienced it first hand.

Slavery doesn't exist today, praise the Lord and hopefully one of these days people of all colors will live in this moment for the Lord, rather than the past drudging up old slavery evils.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Pete Richert:
However, I don't really take it as strong evidence that you guys reject it on the basis that YOU will make your own way. Your white. It simply doesn't mean they same thing since if you try hard enough, you probably will get a job and advance. The same is not true of Blacks in all cases.

It isn't true for anyone, no matter what color you are. My dad has worked for a company for over a decade. He has been honored with employee of the month and year awards. Yet, when it comes time for promotions, he always seems to be passed up by a black female who hasn't been there but a year or two. Your logic doesn't fit with reality. Sometimes, if white men work really hard, they are the ones who are not rewarded. But I guess that makes the liberals in this country feel better that a Jewish man, whose ancestors were brutalized far worse than any black man's ever was, is getting punished and discriminated against because he is a white man.

Your logic doesn't work on another level. There are many black people who are extremely successful because they chose to not let themselves be a victim. They made it on their own. Ask Colin Powell, Walter Williams, Oprah Winfrey, and other blacks who stopped feeling sorry for themselves and decided to declare victory in their lives against all odds. How about Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods. Or do you just write these hard workers off as Uncle Toms because they are willing to work hard and refuse to whine about the hardships of being black.

Also consider the Jews. I don't see many Jewish men on welfare. I don't see Jewish people asking for affirmative action (with the notable exception of extreme liberal Alan Dershowitz). They don't whine and cry about being Jewish. They are proud of their heritage and are extremely successful.

Consider the Japanese. They certainly haven't had it too easy since we dropped the bomb on them in WW2. They now own half the world. They are willing to work. Perhaps, liberals should stop whining and start working more.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Pete Richert]

All you have provided is ancetodal evidence. Just because one person does something does not determine if it is the norm. Let's look at your examples.

It isn't true for anyone, no matter what color you are. My dad has worked for a company for over a decade. He has been honored with employee of the month and year awards. Yet, when it comes time for promotions, he always seems to be passed up by a black female who hasn't been there but a year or two. Your logic doesn't fit with reality. Sometimes, if white men work really hard, they are the ones who are not rewarded. But I guess that makes the liberals in this country feel better that a Jewish man, whose ancestors were brutalized far worse than any black man's ever was, is getting punished and discriminated against because he is a white man.

I'm sorry for your dad. He should be promoted. The fact that at your dad's company black females are given preference in no way negates the established fact that nationwide on average white males are given the preference.

Your logic doesn't work on another level. There are many black people who are extremely successful because they chose to not let themselves be a victim. They made it on their own. Ask Colin Powell, Walter Williams, Oprah Winfrey, and other blacks who stopped feeling sorry for themselves and decided to declare victory in their lives against all odds. How about Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods. Or do you just write these hard workers off as Uncle Toms because they are willing to work hard and refuse to whine about the hardships of being black.

They are hard working people. Good for them. Giving me three names of sucessful people in no way negates that fact that on a national average these people exceed less and our given less oporunities, regardless of how hard they are working. As for MJ and TW, good for them. I think sports is the one place that actual talent and hard work is the number one factor in sucess.

I am glad you brought up Colin Powell. He stands alone among a bunch of white male leaders. To demonstate your point you will need to list enough names that 11% of our political power is black (the national average of black people), not 0.001%, namely the one man Colin Powell.

Also consider the Jews. I don't see many Jewish men on welfare. I don't see Jewish people asking for affirmative action (with the notable exception of extreme liberal Alan Dershowitz). They don't whine and cry about being Jewish. They are proud of their heritage and are extremely successful.

Jewish people have the specific advantage of not being black. Indeed, most people in America probably could indentity them. The general mode of discrimination all around the world is the darker the skin, the less favored, even in Africa.

Consider the Japanese. They certainly haven't had it too easy since we dropped the bomb on them in WW2. They now own half the world. They are willing to work. Perhaps, liberals should stop whining and start working more.

The Japanese don't own half the world. I hope you are exegerating. The idea that the Japanese are slowly taking over the world is being pushed by ignorant alarmist (Rising Sun? anyone) that is way blown out of proportion. The Japanese economy was in a huge recession for most of the late eighties and ninities, the very time every body got all concerned about them. Even so, the moot is point. Most Japanese are sucessful in Japan, and even the ones in America have a much easier time then blacks. That said, Japanese tend toward racisim themselves and I hear it is harder to black in Japan then America.

 

[Dan Todd]

Hitler's Germany, as governmental policy, tried to exterminate the Jews. To equate that with what the slaves in America faced is a mighty big jump.

How many African Americans can truly trace their lineage to an American slave?

Would caucasians who came to America after the civil war be held liable for what the pre-civil war caucasians did?

And finally, to demonstrate an absurdity with an absurdity, would a slave descendant, who is also a slave owner descendant, have to pay him or her self?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Pete,

So, basically, what you are saying is that black people are the only ones who can't work hard and be successful. Shame on you. Black people (generalization coming here) as a whole, are not successful because they are too busy feeling sorry for themselves and demanding affirmative action and reparations (telling someone else to do everything for them) instead of working for their living.

If you want to make generalizations against white people and how they have it so easy, that can go both ways. The truth is, the reason Jews, Japanese and other non black races are successful is because they don't whine about their circumstances and work for what they get.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Pete Richert]

Black people (generalization coming here) as a whole, are not successful because they are too busy feeling sorry for themselves and demanding affirmative action and reparations (telling someone else to do everything for them) instead of working for their living.

Are you serious?

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Pete Richert:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Black people (generalization coming here) as a whole, are not successful because they are too busy feeling sorry for themselves and demanding affirmative action and reparations (telling someone else to do everything for them) instead of working for their living.

Are you serious? </font>[/QUOTE]Sadly, I think he is. So many have this stereotype, that it's no wonder there is so much tension between people of these races. From what I've personally seen, I know several African-Americans who work harder than any white person I know, and I know many, many white people who would rather accept welfare than work.

I wonder how many black people Joseph actually knows and befriends.

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Black people as a whole, are not successful because they are too busy feeling sorry for themselves and demanding affirmative action and reparations (telling someone else to do everything for them) instead of working for their living.
The truth is, the reason Jews, Japanese and other non black races are successful is because they don't whine about their circumstances and work for what they get.

Joseph Botwinick

Opinion has caused more trouble on this little earth than plagues or earthquakes. -- Voltaire

I am always shocked when anyone says something ugly like this outloud.

 

[Tanker]

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I am a 55-year old white male, the MOST PREJUDICED AGAINST group in America's politically correct culture today.&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

No, you are a part of the group, White Anglo-Saxon Protestant, that has dominated the political and economic life of the United States since the beginning. You don't realize how good you have it. How about showing a little empathy towards those groups who have been the underdogs?

 

[Tanker]

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Black people as a whole, are not successful because they are too busy feeling sorry for themselves and demanding affirmative action and reparations&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

I see lots of successful blacks these days, compared to many years ago. Their standard of living has greatly increased in the last 40 years.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Tanker,

Of the black people you see today who are successful, how many of them got to where they are by feeling sorry for themselves or demanding somebody to give them something they didn't earn because of their color? Also, how many of those got successful by working hard and making their own way? Would you care to name some successful black people and how they became successful? Apparently, my list of 5 was not enough to convince Pete that black people can be successful today on their own merits without affirmative action.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Pete Richert:

They are hard working people. Good for them. Giving me three names of sucessful people in no way negates that fact that on a national average these people exceed less and our given less oporunities, regardless of how hard they are working. As for MJ and TW, good for them. I think sports is the one place that actual talent and hard work is the number one factor in sucess.

I am glad you brought up Colin Powell. He stands alone among a bunch of white male leaders. To demonstate your point you will need to list enough names that 11% of our political power is black (the national average of black people), not 0.001%, namely the one man Colin Powell.
[/QUOTE]

If I gave you more than three names and showed you other black people besides Colin Powell who have suceeded in the political arena, would that convince you? Or do you even want to believe that black people can crawl out of the plantation you seem to have put them in long enough to be successful? Do you have a problem with the idea of black people being able to make it on their own without the governments help?

Let me and several others on this board help you out:

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=003095

Joseph Botwinick

 

[baptistteacher]

I am with Dr. Bob in the "white middle aged male" category, the only group that is legally discriminated against in these United States of America.

And my ancestors, the Heugonots, were severely persecuted by the French and the Roman Catholics, even to the point of killing 10,000 in the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacar. So each of the French and Roman Catholics should mail me 10 dollars at ...