Slaves to George W. Bush and the Republican Party

They should investigate the reports... as well as the source of the leaks to see if any laws were broken there. I agree no double standards. What's good for one leaker should be good for another.

 

I hope someone is saving these quotes by the George W. Bush/Republican supporters who have no problem with Snoopgate in case they change their tune starting in January 2009 if a Democrat becomes president.

I hope someone is saving these voluminous threads the next time al Qaeda does manage to pull off another terrorist attack inside the U.S. Or that perhaps someone recognizes the fact there hasn't been another, and that other attacks and plans have been thwarted.

 

If the Bush administration gets credit for four years without a terrorist attack on US soil, does the Clinton administration get credit for the eight years without a terrorist attack on US soil between the two WTC attacks?

 

No he will get credit only if he succeeds where Clinton and Bush I failed. The 9/11 cells entered and developed primarily under Clinton. The WTC 1 cells under Bush I.

We won't really know how effective or damaging the Bush Admin has been for several years... as is true of most presidencies.

BTW, you forgot the Unibomber and OKC.

 

The 9/11/01 attacks could have been prevented without the Patriot Act and without warrantless wiretaps. </font>[/QUOTE]After 9/11, most people reacted with some degree of panic.

Sanity says that what you say is probably true. But most weren't opposed to being extra careful when this change actually went through.

It doesn't have to be this "gotcha" type of thing. We need to make an adjustment to prevent abuse.

 

Ken,

The 9/11/01 attacks could have been prevented without the Patriot Act and without warrantless wiretaps.

If these searches are helpful in preventing other attacks, I think they are worthwhile, if they are used as has been described, to listen to phone conversations including identified members or associates of al Qaeda.

 

How would illegally forgoing a warrant be more helpful in thwarting an attack than obtaining one? Especially since they have 72 hours after doing the tap to get the warrant? Bush didn't just overrun the time limit - he outright ignored it (if the White House admission is correct).

 

Daisy,

First of all, as OR has repeatedly posted, this all may have been quite legal. Secondly, though, in this situation, I don't have a problem with it, given the practical use of it. Now, if this turns out to be being used against antiwar groups (and I haven't seen any evidence that this is so being used), I do have a problem with it, as I have noted before. Also, if evidence turns up that this is being otherwise used against political enemies, he should be impeached for it, but I am willing to cut the guy some slack for trying to catch bad guys who may be trying to attack us. You and Ken do raise valid points, or at least questions, as to the constitutionality (though I don't know that anyone has addressed the posts OR has made in the many threads Ken has started on this issue) but in this case I am willing to let terrorist scum have their "rights" violated, if they have any, to keep the rest of us safe. And, despite the quotes of "they that give up a little liberty", that IS the government's job. I think we should keep that in mind.

 

Issues: Civil Liberties and Human Rights: Post-September 11

Pentagon Spying on Quaker Meeting House
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Draft Counselors at Lake Worth, Florida Quaker Meeting House called "Threat"

"A year ago, at a Quaker Meeting House in Lake Worth, Fla., a small group of activists met to plan a protest of military recruiting at local high schools. What they didn't know was that their meeting had come to the attention of the U.S. military."

~NBC News Report

The Pentagon acknowleged in mid-December the existence of a secret spying program in the United States that involves surveillence of Quaker meeting houses, AFSC regional offices, and other peace groups engaged in constitutionally protected, peaceful activities.

NBC News first reported the existence of this Pentagon program, that included spying on public meetings of a draft counseling group meeting at a Quaker Meeting House in Lake Worth, Florida. Read the secret Pentagon document http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/DODAntiWarProtestDatabaseTracker.pdf
which includes a summary of surveillence of "counter military recruitment planning meeting" at Quaker Meeting House in Lake Worth, Florida that is listed as a "threat"

The Northeast Ohio American Friends Service Committee says the documents also reveal that the Pentagon spied on their meetings.

FCNL Demands a Congressional Investigation
Read FCNL Executive Secretary Joe Volk's letter to Florida Senators Mel Martinez and Bill Nelson requesting congressional hearings on the Pentagon's domestic spying program and the possible violations of unalienable rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights which may have occurred at Lake Worth, FL and other locations.
Reviewed: 12/23/2005

 

SAN,

Once more, this previous program is being confused with another. Yeah, yeah, it's an example of how government can and does go after such dissident groups, but I asked if antiwar groups were being targeted as part of this specific NSA wiretap program. Now, can you name any examples of this NSA wiretap program being used to go after antiwar groups?

 

The National Security Agency has been spying on a Baltimore anti-war group, according to documents released during litigation, going so far as to document the inflating of protesters' balloons, and intended to deploy units trained to detect weapons of mass destruction, RAW STORY has learned.

According to the documents, the Pledge of Resistance-Baltimore, a Quaker-linked peace group, has been monitored by the NSA working with the Baltimore Intelligence Unit of the Baltimore City Police Department.

SOURCE


Click here to view documents

 

I'm starting to feel like OR repeatedly posting the news link about this story in hopes that someone on that side of the issue would read it. ONCE MORE: that story has nothing to do with the NSA wiretapping such organizations under the program at issue.

 

From the article:

"The NSA confirmed, because of a FOIA request I filed, that indeed it has files on peace and justice groups," Obuszewiski said. "However, the Agency is refusing to release the information unless I pay $1,915. What might be in these files?"

BTW, why doesn't the guy just pay the copy charges, read it, and quit his whining? He could probably find out "what might be in" those files if he paid his money.

 

You've asked for secret evidence FTR. Do you really think we're going to see any specifics about wiretaps in the MSM?

Maybe the guy is broke from paying too many taxes, or maybe he has huge support payments, who knows?

 

MSM?

He's concerned about what might be in the files? He ought to quit his bellyaching and kill the suspense. If he's not willing to get the files and look in them, I don't care what might be in them. He just wants a soapbox. Tell him to get some evidence and come back.

[ January 11, 2006, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: fromtheright ]

 

MSM = mainstream, or controlled media. Controlled by a very very few BTW.

Yeah okay FTR, hey you on the soapbox either show us the top secret NSA files or shut up!!!

 

The NSA told him "Here are the files, pay the copying charges", the guy refused, but he wants to bellyache about what "might" be in the them rather than doing what it takes to find out. But if he does that, then that means he has to climb off his soapbox and possibly look like a fool if it turns out there's nothing he can rail about. The one who is laughable is the guy doing the performance on the soapbox. (rolling eyes in lieu of a yawn)

 

Then he should be flogged, no doubt. Better yet let's crush some part of his anatomy to get a confession out of him, I'll bet he works for Al Qeada.

 

Sounds good. Perhaps we can get some shadowy figure from the NSA to do it.