Smoking and Beer

[EdSutton]

Tell me one positive thing that alcohol has ever done for a person, family, or job.

Actually I am sure that soilders on the battle fields (especially the ones from earlier wars) can tell you alchohol has done many positive things. On the battlefield it acted as both a cleaner of wounds and as pain medication when men were wounded.

IFBReformer

Well, that's one thing, at least as a cleaner of wonds. But the "most stringent" here could and would not have it used as "pain medication".

Let 'em suffer! There's one alternative that is far worse than suffering! That's drinkin'!! Horrors!! :tonofbricks:

Oh yeah, another positive thing?? How about the use in cars as the additive to gasoline, now, as opposed to lead? Ethanol is alcohol, and the same basic chemical formulation as what is imbibed! Or do any here, not drive, but rely on horses, still? And alcohol that is formed is what keeps silage from spoiling, and that is a common feed for cattle, especially in feedlots where they are 'finished' for the market to be slaughtered. Guess they all better become vegetarians, since I'm sure they certainly would not want to consume any meat that was produced by any animal that was "under the influence!"

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

Nonprescription and prescription drugs, such as cold tablets, cough syrups, allergy remedies, etc. may contain antihistamines, alcohol, codeine and other chemicals that affect judgment. We see warning labels all the time for these things.

Should we not take pain pills or cough medicine either? The Christians I know that only occasionally drink do so for relaxation purposes. I totally agree that just one small alchohalic drink will relax a person - studies have definitely shown that. And any drug(or herbal subistute), be it perscription or other wise that relaxes will to small extent impair judgment. That fact alone does not make it wrong. Its if it is abused.

We should always be in control of ourselves(thats what temperance is), but that does not mean we cannot take foods or medicines or drinks that help us relax. We can still be in control, but relaxed.

You may say there are other ways to relax than to drink alchohal, and I agree there probably are. But that does not make alchohal wrong just because there are other ways to relax.

IFBReformer

This is why I don't get into the alcohol threads. I will leave here from this one. I overreacted to Ivy, and for that I am sorry. Have a nice day,

 

[Hope of Glory]

People who take the position to abstain are not being dishonest.

They are if they claim the Bible says to never drink.

I'm all for teaching abstinence. It's what I do. But, to claim the Bible says anywhere that you should never ever under any circumstance intentionally consume alcohol is dishonest, even if it's unintentional.

What those who criticize Bob and others are doing is using the Scripture as a crutch, looking at it in a very legalistic way, nit picking it, to justify drinking. We all have the Holy Spirit guiding us. There is no disharmony is how He leads us and the Scripture.

There is disharmony if you claim the Bible says to always abstain from alcohol.

If He leads you to the fact that it is ok to drink, then it should not bother you to do it at any time or any place.

The Holy Spirit tells me that it's OK to have relations with my wife, but guess what I won't be doing any time or any place, least of all in front of the SS class?

 

[IveyLeaguer]

Sorry about the ignorance remark, I was out of line and please forgive me.

Not a problem, Brother. That didn't really bother me. But I want to be sure you understand I didn't call Christ a drunkard. The Pharisees did. And the Lord responded to them (paraphrasing), "John came drinking no wine and you call him demon-possessed. I come drinking wine and you call me a drunkard."

And I'm certainly not saying that not allowing alcohol in church is sin. I would never condone alcohol in church or in church activities. My point is, if we proclaim to a brother or to the flock that alcohol is prohibited in church or by them in private because it is sin, then we have added to God's Word and misrepresented Him by creating a rule He never made. Satan has successfully snared us into a legalism.

There are good Biblical reasons to forbid alcohol in church or church activities, such as appearances, harming a weaker brother, etc., etc., without having to resort to Legalism. Further, I would argue that the Bible teaches that much discretion and good judgment is required when using wine outside of church, in order not to offend others or the Gospel, etc.. And I am certainly sorry if I offended you in any way.

One exception I can think of to the above: The largest church I know of that is still Biblical is a church in Atlanta, a very wealthy church of about 4000. They have communion after every Sunday morning service, which I kind of like. And they use real wine, a very high quality red wine, in the communion. And I can testify that it is one of the best, most Holy, communions that I have ever been a part of.

raying:

 

[saturneptune]

The Holy Spirit tells me that it's OK to have relations with my wife, but guess what I won't be doing any time or any place, least of all in front of the SS class?

That is a strawman. There is an obvious, common sense reason for not doing what you said above. (common sense). You are not hiding that fact. It is part of marriage.

Even if you did not drink it in front of your SS class, my guess is that you would not want to be seen anywhere at anytime by anyone in your SS class, your church or whatever your ministry is.

Common sense goes a long way.

 

[npetreley]

Even if you did not drink it in front of your SS class, my guess is that you would not want to be seen anywhere at anytime by anyone in your SS class, your church or whatever your ministry is.

Drink what? A little wine? It wouldn't bother me in the least to have people from church see me drinking a little wine. It wouldn't bother me in the least if I saw a pastor, elder, or anyone else drinking a little wine. It would bother me a lot if I saw anyone from church drunk, though.

 

[saturneptune]

Drink what? A little wine? It wouldn't bother me in the least to have people from church see me drinking a little wine. It wouldn't bother me in the least if I saw a pastor, elder, or anyone else drinking a little wine. It would bother me a lot if I saw anyone from church drunk, though.

posted in error

 

[npetreley]

Let me guess, wine was chosen as the holy drink before the foundation of the earth.

Huh? You lost me.

 

[saturneptune]

Huh? You lost me.

Sorry, I was thinking of the Calvinism thread at the same time.
All I can tell you is this is how I have been lead by the Holy Spirit.

 

[charles_creech78]

Mr 7:18 And he saith unto them, are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; Mr 7:19 Because it entereth not into the heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? Mr 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. Mr 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness,an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: Mr 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

 

[Brother Bob]

Have to reply to this;
What goes into a man such as alcohol, has a great influence on what comes out. Anyone who says different, I don't believe is being total honest with himself or others.

 

[npetreley]

Have to reply to this;
What goes into a man such as alcohol, has a great influence on what comes out. Anyone who says different, I don't believe is being total honest with himself or others.

I have to agree with you here. Alcohol can reduce inhibition. So if you have a lot of evil and anger inside you and you drink, that evil and anger is probably more likely to come out. How much drink it takes to make it come out is debatable, but it's a valid point.

But the real issue is the anger and evil that's inside you, not what it took to make it come out. Lots of stuff makes it come out, including participating here on Baptist Board.

 

[Brother Bob]

I have to agree with you here. Alcohol can reduce inhibition. So if you have a lot of evil and anger inside you and you drink, that evil and anger is probably more likely to come out. How much drink it takes to make it come out is debatable, but it's a valid point.

But the real issue is the anger and evil that's inside you, not what it took to make it come out. Lots of stuff makes it come out, including participating here on Baptist Board.

Yea, that is what mirrors are for............

 

[Analgesic]

If He leads you to the fact that it is ok to drink, then it should not bother you to do it at any time or any place. If it does, then something is wrong, and needs to be searched out.

This seems a poor argument, since there are reasons other than an absolute prohibition why it might bother one to drink at a given time or place. For me, it's a matter of eating meat offered to idols: While I'm not personally convicted in the matter, I abstain in many situations in order to respect the different convictions of my bothers in Christ. It would bother me very much were I to cause unnecessary discord in our time of fellowship, but that in no way alters my Biblical conviction of the truth in the matter.

 

[npetreley]

Yea, that is what mirrors are for............

Doesn't work for me. I don't have a reflection in the mirror.

 

[saturneptune]

This seems a poor argument, since there are reasons other than an absolute prohibition why it might bother one to drink at a given time or place. For me, it's a matter of eating meat offered to idols: While I'm not personally convicted in the matter, I abstain in many situations in order to respect the different convictions of my bothers in Christ. It would bother me very much were I to cause unnecessary discord in our time of fellowship, but that in no way alters my Biblical conviction of the truth in the matter.

Then you allow the Holy Spirit lead you, and I will do likewise. Interpret as you like, but my motivation for not drinking while teaching Sunday School goes way beyond the weaker brother argument. It would truly bother me to do so. And if it bothers me there, it does all the time. Behavior should be the same at work, home or church. I am guilty of lots of things, but acting different at church is not one of them.

 

[Analgesic]

Then you allow the Holy Spirit lead you, and I will do likewise. Interpret as you like, but my motivation for not drinking while teaching Sunday School goes way beyond the weaker brother argument. It would truly bother me to do so. And if it bothers me there, it does all the time. Behavior should be the same at work, home or church. I am guilty of lots of things, but acting different at church is not one of them.

I think this is where we differ. I believe most strongly that my character should be the same at work, home, or church, but surely that does not mean that we should behave the same! In my opinion, being with different people for different purposes should certainly modify the behavior of a courteous gentleman.

 

[mcdirector]

Doesn't work for me. I don't have a reflection in the mirror.

Vampire???

 

[Brother Bob]

Yep.......... disclaimer

 

[webdog]

Have to reply to this;
What goes into a man such as alcohol, has a great influence on what comes out. Anyone who says different, I don't believe is being total honest with himself or others.

You ain't kidding! You should see how many trips I make to the rest room