Smoking Cigars

[HAMel]

We usually don't suspect faults in others which we do not commit ourselves.
Often, the finding of fault in another somehow seems to ease the conscience of the one who finds fault.
We are not suppose to find fault but rather, forgive, but it doesn't always work that way.

@ JonC δοῦλος, you said, "There are few things more damaging to a church...or a marriage for that matter...than someone who joins in that relationship with the intent on changing it to their preferences. I can't help but see a level of dishonestly in that."

How true, how true! Those families who control a church should pay attention here.

 

[preachinjesus]

Any church that disciplines a member for smoking a cigar should be held in utter contempt if they don't accord the same discipline for any member eating a Big Mac, drinking a 36+ oz soft drink, or not getting a yearly physical.


I don't smoke. I think it is not a wise activity, but there isn't a stitch of scripture against it.

 

[tyndale1946]

Any church that disciplines a member for smoking a cigar should be held in utter contempt if they don't accord the same discipline for any member eating a Big Mac, drinking a 36+ oz soft drink, or not getting a yearly physical.


I don't smoke. I think it is not a wise activity, but there isn't a stitch of scripture against it.

I use to be a previous smoker too!... That was over forty years ago!... I smoked cigarettes, sometimes a cigar, and sometimes a pipe... Many Baptist men in the church smoked!... Was it right?... NO!... Then again that was the culture... But to this day I will never forget the classic remark from my Dad when I asked him if smoking would send someone to Hell?... He looked me straight in the face without batting an eyeball said... "There is no scripture that says it will but it will make you smell like you've already been there"!... Brother Glen

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It would depend on what your church covenant says. The boiler plate baptist church covenant usually says something like:



However, newer revisions started to show up back in the 1960s that include the words: So, it seems it is up to the church covenant you agreed to when you joined the church. If it doesn't mention it then you should be free to exercise your Christian liberty. If it does mention it you are bound by your agreement to the church covenant as long as you remain a member. If what you want to do violates the church covenant you should find a different church. And this time read the covenant you are agreeing to before joining.

Is this the same as taking an oath?

 

[JonC]

I use to be a previous smoker too!... That was over forty years ago!... I smoked cigarettes, sometimes a cigar, and sometimes a pipe... Many Baptist men in the church smoked!... Was it right?... NO!... Then again that was the culture... But to this day I will never forget the classic remark from my Dad when I asked him if smoking would send someone to Hell?... He looked me straight in the face without batting an eyeball said... "There is no scripture that says it will but it will make you smell like you've already been there"!... Brother Glen

Growing up, I remember that between Sunday school and service the easiest way to find my dad was to look for that cloud of smoke. The men would gather outside of the building for fellowship before the service, and 90% of them smoked. They were, BTW, very godly men as was my father.

I think that two factors contribute to my distaste for smoking today. First, of course, is our changing culture (which should not be the determining factor of church doctrine). Second and more importantly, I have watched as most of that 90% of godly men, including my father, died fairly young men from diseases associated with smoking cigarettes. My father died when he was 52 years old. He met my wife, but never my son. I think of how God used my father to draw me to Himself. I reflect on what I learned watching him study scripture when he returned from work for hours at the kitchen table. I remember the time he devoted to my brother and me as he was actively engaged in our activities and the activities of the church. And I think that, in the end, he regretted the fact that his seemingly small decision in exercising that freedom to smoke concluded his influence, and God's influence through him, in this life.

Was it a sin? I really do not know. It was an unfortunate habit and a concession for the flesh that God used to take away my father, my mother's husband, and a leader in our church at a fairly young age. It was an activity that proved a poor choice for my father. But it was also something that God has used somehow in making me what I am today, flaws and all.

 

[agedman]

All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. (1 Cor 6)​

I have yet to understand a believer who intentionally would engage in ANY activity in which there is even the slightest chance "mastery" may result.

Over the years, there have been untold number of folks who came to me seeking some help in an area in which they once considered "lawful" and are even now "mastered."

It is not a matter of freedom or liberty, it is a matter of why walk through the land ruled by, Lack of Discernment, thinking that one won't ever become a play toy to that master's rule?

Sure, the "vices" may be socially acceptable, and may not be enumerated "unlawful" by Scriptures, but the believer is to be Christ like. To be, as best as possible in every manner of character and spirit, as that of Christ. When that didn't work for the Corinthians, Paul said to look at him as an example of how to be an imitator of Christ, "Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ." Is one at every probe into their life an imitator of Christ or an example of how to be an imitator of Christ?

Before anyone starts foolishly proclaiming that I am "proof texting," might I remind you that the believer's devotion to Christ is reflected in their attitude toward the world and the worldly? The believer is in this world, certainly, but the believer is never to allow themselves to be enthralled, rely upon, or "mastered" by what is in this world or the substances of this world.

Imo, the discernment of a believer is chipped away, bit by bit, as they consider they may engage in some "lawful" that has the potential of mastery.

I don't need to point out that even on this thread there are excuses offered, defenses made, and even scorn shown. I have yet to meet a believer who is not engaged in serious battle of mastery, who did not in the very start of the journey through the land use the very same arguments that some have posted.

The life and living of the believer is NOT for ourselves, the pleasures it brings, nor the benefits this world offers! We are lights, we are to allow living water, we are to live in such a manner that OTHERS see Christ in us, that OTHERS are benefited, that OTHERS are lifted above and preferred, all the while pointing to Christ. Be it intoxicants of any form, attitudes, lusts, ... each of these do not reflect that of Christ, nor the life of wise discernment lived before the world as a rebuke for their ungodly character.

Wisdom from above is FIRST pure (free from defilement, holy, sacred, innocent) THEN ... (James 3).

One cannot expect the rest of the gifts of Wisdom from above, without first attending to that which Wisdom demands and obligates

Plainly, would you blow smoke into the eyes of the Savior?

It may be lawful, but it wouldn't gain much favor.

When does the liquor bottle, the tobacco leaf, the big mac ... bring discernment?

When it is to late, the damage done, the judgment pronounced. That is the manner of and gift of any sin offered by the enemy of the believer. The immediate pleasures of the flesh and the fleshly have lasting and devastating rewards.

 

[tyndale1946]

Growing up, I remember that between Sunday school and service the easiest way to find my dad was to look for that cloud of smoke. The men would gather outside of the building for fellowship before the service, and 90% of them smoked. They were, BTW, very godly men as was my father.

I think that two factors contribute to my distaste for smoking today. First, of course, is our changing culture (which should not be the determining factor of church doctrine). Second and more importantly, I have watched as most of that 90% of godly men, including my father, died fairly young men from diseases associated with smoking cigarettes. My father died when he was 52 years old. He met my wife, but never my son. I think of how God used my father to draw me to Himself. I reflect on what I learned watching him study scripture when he returned from work for hours at the kitchen table. I remember the time he devoted to my brother and me as he was actively engaged in our activities and the activities of the church. And I think that, in the end, he regretted the fact that his seemingly small decision in exercising that freedom to smoke concluded his influence, and God's influence through him, in this life.

Was it a sin? I really do not know. It was an unfortunate habit and a concession for the flesh that God used to take away my father, my mother's husband, and a leader in our church at a fairly young age. It was an activity that proved a poor choice for my father. But it was also something that God has used somehow in making me what I am today, flaws and all.

There is an old saying an apple doesn't fall to far from the tree!... I think that is so true with me... I was brought up in a Christian home and my people were church people... I had a great foundation to build on and to me that is the most important attribute for a child of God... Godly parents and we don't give them the high praise they so richly deserve... Were they perfect?... No way!... We all walk with feet of clay!... But I truly believe because of our up bringing that we were kept at bay by the vices of the world... I for one served in the military and vices are plentiful there and you can have your fill... If you wanted to fit in the USMC there was drinking, gambling I never liked drinking or gambling nether the activity or the people and I was the odd man out... Smoking to me was the less of them but those who served remember the smoking lamp is lit... And it was hazardous to light up on the battlefield not later but then!... Smoking really does kill or gets you killed... My Dad was an avid smoker all his life but died of dementia... Mom outlived dad by 10 years and died of COPD (second hand smoke)!... It is so true that smoking kills and sometimes even though it takes its time kills the ones you love even after you are long gone... Those are sobering thoughts if you ever think of taking up the habit!... Brother Glen

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

To be addicted to anything is a weakness...one that eventually destroy you. Look, if I want to smoke, drink, or whatever, it isn't anyone's business....just as long as I don't hurt anyone in the process. I can't stand legalists.

 

[Aaron]

As far as vices go, I think smoking tobacco ranks very low on the totem pole. Somewhere below overeating.