So, if women are not supposed to preach.................

[donnA]

Originally posted by James Newman:
But is she saved, Craig? If she is disobeying a biblical commandment, can she be a real Christian?

Real saved christians disobey God everyday. We all still sin, none of us is sin free. And neither is Joyce Myers. Whether or not she preaches does not determine whether or not she is saved.
And just to let you know I am not a Joyce Myer fan, I totally disagree with her being ordained and oreaching. She completely misunderstand scripture.

 

[Jason Garrett]

Is there a difference between a pastor and preacher? I believe there is. No, woment shouldn't be pastors (the shepards of the local congregations) but they can be preachers. I see no Biblical errancy in that line of thinking.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
Obviously a person's salvation is based on the committment he/makes to Christ and nothing else.

Amen. It doesn't matter if the person(s) who shared Christ with them are men, women, children, divorced, single, maried, sinless, sinners, pure of heart, or ill of deed.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Jason Garrett:
Is there a difference between a pastor and preacher? I believe there is. No, woment shouldn't be pastors (the shepards of the local congregations) but they can be preachers. I see no Biblical errancy in that line of thinking.

I happen to agree with you (actually, I personally disagree with the SBC's interpretation, but as an SBC member, I'm bound to adhere to it and accept it).

 

[Jason Garrett]

Johnv, if the SBC takes a stand against something that is, in this case, not a legitimate beef, then how are we bound to adhere to it? The local SBC church is autonomous in that regard. I think...

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jason Garrett:
Is there a difference between a pastor and preacher? I believe there is. No, woment shouldn't be pastors (the shepards of the local congregations) but they can be preachers. I see no Biblical errancy in that line of thinking.

I happen to agree with you (actually, I personally disagree with the SBC's interpretation, but as an SBC member, I'm bound to adhere to it and accept it). </font>[/QUOTE]John, I am not arguing with you. I just want to know how you fit in 1 Timothy Chapter 3. Do we ignore it?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Phillip:
John, I am not arguing with you. I just want to know how you fit in 1 Timothy Chapter 3. Do we ignore it?

Do you mean 1 Tim 2:12? (But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.)

It's my opinion that the context in the Greek differs from how some perceive it. Gunh and Anhr are the words in koine Greek for "wife" and "husband" respectively (not "man" and "woman" in general), and being guided in this verse by the passage which is its wider context, we can see that this context is referring to a home-marriage-family situation, not a church context. Paul is saying that he does not allow a wife to exercise authenteo over a husband in the marriage relationship (authenteo = control in a domineering manner). It is my opinion that this verse has to do with the marital relationship, and was not intended to refer to all men and women in a church setting.

I'll add that this is strictly my opinion, and some will disagree, which is fine. As I said, since I'm an SBC member, I'm bound to adhere to their interpretation of the verse, which differs from my own. Hence, I would not favor women pastors in an SBC setting (other churches are free under the distinctive of local autonomy to interpret the topic as they see fit). However, women preaching is a different story. All are called to the Great Commission, both men and women alike.

 

[Jason Garrett]

Your last sentence says it all, Johnv. God gifts each of us differently, and if our gift is to teach, then we should do it, regardless of where we're at.

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
Obviously a person's salvation is based on the committment he/makes to Christ and nothing else.

Amen. It doesn't matter if the person(s) who shared Christ with them are men, women, children, divorced, single, maried, sinless, sinners, pure of heart, or ill of deed. </font>[/QUOTE]Obviously you are mistaken! Our salvation is only based on Christ shedding His precious blood all over that old rugged cross. Why are so many baptists getting away from the blood? The blood that covers any sin, the precious blood of our Saviour! You can't even begin to commit to Christ without His blood covering your sins. I'm about sick of seeing people who say they are good enough to be saved. You know what? You all deserve to be thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity. What did he say? Thats right, you all deserve to be thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity. The only reason you will not be thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity like you deserve is because God loved you more than you will ever love Him, and He sent His only begotten Son to DIE a HORRIBLE BLOODY DEATH to pay for YOUR sins!

 

[David M Walker]

Originally posted by James Newman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
Obviously a person's salvation is based on the committment he/makes to Christ and nothing else.

Amen. It doesn't matter if the person(s) who shared Christ with them are men, women, children, divorced, single, maried, sinless, sinners, pure of heart, or ill of deed. </font>[/QUOTE]Obviously you are mistaken! Our salvation is only based on Christ shedding His precious blood all over that old rugged cross. Why are so many baptists getting away from the blood? The blood that covers any sin, the precious blood of our Saviour! You can't even begin to commit to Christ without His blood covering your sins. I'm about sick of seeing people who say they are good enough to be saved. You know what? You all deserve to be thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity. What did he say? Thats right, you all deserve to be thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity. The only reason you will not be thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity like you deserve is because God loved you more than you will ever love Him, and He sent His only begotten Son to DIE a HORRIBLE BLOODY DEATH to pay for YOUR sins! </font>[/QUOTE]Isa 64:6 ¶ But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Saved by NOTHING but the precious blood of Jesus,
dmw

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Jason Garrett:
Johnv, if the SBC takes a stand against something that is, in this case, not a legitimate beef, then how are we bound to adhere to it? The local SBC church is autonomous in that regard. I think...

SBC churches must adhere to SBC matters of faith and practice. Otherwise, they wouldn't be SBC churches. Women preachers is one of those items.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by James Newman:
Obviously you are mistaken! Our salvation is only based on Christ shedding His precious blood all over that old rugged cross. Why are so many baptists getting away from the blood? The blood that covers any sin, the precious blood of our Saviour! You can't even begin to commit to Christ without His blood covering your sins. I'm about sick of seeing people who say they are good enough to be saved. You know what?

Easy there, tiger!!! No one disagrees with you. You're taking something that's pertaining to a different context, in this case, the context of women and the Great Commission.

You all deserve to be thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity. What did he say? Thats right, you all deserve to be thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity. The only reason you will not be thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity like you deserve is because God loved you more than you will ever love Him, and He sent His only begotten Son to DIE a HORRIBLE BLOODY DEATH to pay for YOUR sins!

You might want to use the phrase "we all" instead of "you all". Your post gives off an air of unrighteousness on your part otherwise. Then again, your posts are often reflective of an "I'm better than you" position, so the fact that you last post comes off as more of the same is not really surprising. Perhaps next time you might want to take the post in its context before throwing the Bible at us.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Johnv:
Women preachers is one of those items.

Oops! I should have said "women pastors is one of those items". Sorry 'bout that.

 

[DavidFWhite3]

I'm so happy, so blessed, to be free from the kind of Baptists who use the Bible to tell God what he can and cannot do. Regardless of what you people think, God does call women to be pastors, and thank God these women listen to him, and not the likes of you.

Not a one of you follows what Paul teaches in his letters that deal with this subject. All of you who take the position that women cannot be pastors are hypocrits. You pick and choose passages that allow you to be officially and "biblically" sexist. Yet you ignore or cast aside the instructions regarding speaking in tounges, requiring women to keep their heads covered when they do speak, and so forth.
You are of the same ilk who used the bible to justify slavery, then segregation. Some people are so pitiful they just have to believe there is something about them that makes them superior to others. All of you would agree it is evil to see your race as the definitive race, all others being inferior, yet you are too blind to see gender in the same light.

And how convenient for some of you women who can always tell God you can't answer his call because you are a woman. I think you are all pitiful, and people deserving pity, for you get so wrapped up in your doctrines and lose sight of real humanity, real suffering, and therefore, real ministry.

Dave

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by DavidFWhite3:
I'm so happy, so blessed, to be free from the kind of Baptists who use the Bible to tell God what he can and cannot do. Regardless of what you people think, God does call women to be pastors,.........

Not a one of you follows what Paul teaches in his letters that deal with this subject. All of you who take the position that women cannot be pastors are hypocrits. You pick and choose passages that allow you to be officially and "biblically" sexist. Yet you ignore or cast aside the instructions regarding speaking in tounges, requiring women to keep their heads covered when they do speak, and so forth.
You are of the same ilk who used the bible to justify slavery, then segregation. Some people are so pitiful they just have to believe there is something about them that makes them superior to others. All of you would agree it is evil to see your race as the definitive race, all others being inferior, yet you are too blind to see gender in the same light.

Dave

You must a different Bible than me.

 

[DavidFWhite3]

Dave [/qb][/QUOTE]You must a different Bible than me.
I assume you meant to say:"You must read a different Bible than me."

No I don't. I'm just not nearly as afraid of it as you are. That's right I'm accusing you and all who hold to this doctrine that you are absolutely terrified of the Bible. I am not afraid to see what is right before me. I do not deny that this subject, like others, cannot be settled because you and others like you quote a verse here and a verse there and then proceed to build a doctrine around it when there are numerous other passages that can lead a sincere truth seeking Christian to come to a very different conclusion.

Again, I thank God I don't live in the slavery of Fundamentalism. I do not presume I can keep God from doing something new. You're idea that God is bound by a book is blaspemous enough. What is worse is that he is bound by a doctrine about a book. But I can thank God I find in the same book the truth that can free me from the evil that some call good based upon what they find in the same book. And one evil I am free from is this: I will not tell God he cannot do something such as call a woman to preach. You have no idea how God is moving in this world through women. The sad thing is, your doctrines blind you, and do not allow you to see good and glorious things.

Dave

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by DavidFWhite3:

I'm just not nearly as afraid of it as you are. That's right I'm accusing you and all who hold to this doctrine that you are absolutely terrified of the Bible. I am not afraid to see what is right before me. Dave

Nope, Dave! I'm NOT afraid when God says a woman is not to pastor a church, or teach men, be a deacon, etc.

I am totally at peace with my place in God's plan.

Diane

 

[DavidFWhite3]

Diane:

When you do speak in church, do you cover your head? If not, please tell me why you have the right to ignore one passage about women while you so willingly adhere to others. So do you, or any of the women in your church, cover their heads when speaking in church? I bet not.

By the way, by using phrases like,"My place", you reveal to me a mindset that is archaic, but if you want to stay in "your place" go ahead. But do not ignore the passages that tell us of women who do preach, who do lead, who do what God calls them to do inspite of what others say they can and cannot do. Because its your place it is not neccessarily the place for all women. And the bottom line is fearful for those who "think" as you do. For if God has indeed called women, and through them he is doing wonderful things, and you say it can't be of God, you may very well be blasheming the holy spirit, for you are accusing God of doing an evil thing, or even worse, giving credit to the devil for something God is actually doing, therefore losing the ability to know the difference.

Dave

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by DavidFWhite3:
Diane:

When you do speak in church, do you cover your head? If not, please tell me why you have the right to ignore one passage about women while you so willingly adhere to others. So do you, or any of the women in your church, cover their heads when speaking in church? I bet not.

When you go to church do you wear a tunic? In several places a tunic is mentioned. What gives you the right to ignore certain passages over others too? Do you wear sandals too?

 

[av1611jim]

My My.
David, you are something aren't you?
May I ask? Who made thee ruler over our understanding?
Accusing folks of borderline blasphemy of the Holy Ghost?
My, my.
You may look a little at some other sources besides your own understanding.
Prov. 3:5-6

Nobody said women should not be preachers. In fact some have even said they may and should be, as all believers should.
They just have no business pastoring a local new testament church.



In His service;
Jim