So is it a curse of God to have women rule?

[dianetavegia]

Pastor Greg, If there are no men to teach teen boys in AWANA or a youth group, would you disban the group and send them home or allow an older woman to teach a coed class? NEVER the right way... but sometimes the only way! Think of the homes where the men are non Christians and the mothers and grandmothers bring up those children to become great missionaries and helpers.... like Timothy!

For the record, my husband and I co-teach the 4 year old S/S class and puppets (a how to witness type class) for grades 2-6. I work alone on Wed. night with ages 3 and 4 while Jim helps with the sound board stuff for choir and handbells.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by Phillip:
The bottom line is that Paul did thank women who "worked" in service for the church, but was very clear that leaders must be men. PERIOD.

Anything else is going against what was said to the New Testament Church by God's spokesperson Paul.

This is just typical of more liberalization going on in churches today. Once the doctrines start eroding, they never quit until you have a social club that is no longer a church.

Why do you think Paul was so hard on the church at Corinth. Why do you think the letters to the Corinthian church are in the Bible. Part of the reason is to obviously let us know that "yes" the churches will do things they are not supposed to do; but to use the Bible for correction and follow the rules.

Historical context has NOTHING to do with this because Paul was laying down the rules for how the New Testament churches are to behave.

If we compromise on this, we will compromise on all.

Paul was laying down the ruiles for the Corinthian church, where temple prostitutes were brash women who shouted in the marketplace. Paul desired that the church be different.

I wish it surprised me how jealously fond some of you are over your ancillary doctrines. If a woman leads a Sunday School class, will the Church universal die and disband? If (oh horrors) a church ordains a woman as a minister of word and sacrament, will that church descend immediately into satanic blood rituals?

The Foundation of the Church remains, my friends. These are disputable matters, are they not?

 

[billwald]

"All animals are equal but some are more equal then others."

 

[Paul of Eugene]

Look at the lessons of history. We all know how Britain suffered during the leadership of Queen Victoria and Margaret Thatcher, for example.

 

[KenH]

Margaret Thatcher - England's Ronald Reagan and the best prime minister since Winston Churchill.

 

[Melanie]

I would be quite happy for a man to rule my home etc IF I could find one that was a mature intelligent adult who did not act as a child or worse as a puling baby when he was frustrated by circumstances or ego...

Of course woman was made as a helpmeet to man so why does man seek to subjugate woman because of his manifold inadequacies.

 

[tamborine lady]

I think there is a misunderstanding of what these 2 words mean.

One is RULE,and this is what it means:04910. lvm mashal, maw-shal'
Search for 04910 in KJV

a primitive root; to rule:--(have, make to have) dominion, governor, X indeed, reign, (bear, cause to, have) rule(-ing, -r), have power.

Then there is lead, which means this: 05095. lhn nahal, naw-hal'
Search for 05095 in KJV

a primitive root; properly, to run with a sparkle, i.e. flow; hence (transitively), to conduct, and (by inference) to protect, sustain:--carry, feed, guide, lead (gently, on).

That was the Hebrew definition,

Here is the greek def. of lead3594. odhgew hodegeo, hod-ayg-eh'-o
Search for 3594 in KJV

from 3595; to show the way (literally or figuratively (teach)):--guide, lead.


See Greek 3595 (hodegos)

So, lead and rule have two different meanings here.

Peace

Tam

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
Pastor Greg, If there are no men to teach teen boys in AWANA or a youth group, would you disban the group and send them home or allow an older woman to teach a coed class? NEVER the right way... but sometimes the only way! Think of the homes where the men are non Christians and the mothers and grandmothers bring up those children to become great missionaries and helpers.... like Timothy!

I have been in churches where there is a waiting line of men wanting to lead and others where the women lead. I pastored a church that when I came the primary leaders were women. I changed that over a period of a few years by teaching men how to do ministry. What I found was those women led in the home and at church. Eventually the men led their homes and the church. What a difference it made. The women even noticed the difference at home. They became more peaceful and had a quieter spirit. Earlier some of those women would complain about how the men would not lead but when the men started leading they wanted to start their own things apart from the men. I told them that wasn't going to happen until the women learned to submit themselves to the leadership in the church. At first the men were uneasy about it too. They were too used to letting their wives do all the work.

In the end more evangelism was done and we had more men and women's ministries in the community.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Briony-Gloriana:
I would be quite happy for a man to rule my home etc IF I could find one that was a mature intelligent adult who did not act as a child or worse as a puling baby when he was frustrated by circumstances or ego...

Of course woman was made as a helpmeet to man so why does man seek to subjugate woman because of his manifold inadequacies.

It takes two things to make a winning team--a good coach and good players working together.

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by Briony-Gloriana:
I would be quite happy for a man to rule my home etc IF I could find one that was a mature intelligent adult who did not act as a child or worse as a puling baby when he was frustrated by circumstances or ego...

Of course woman was made as a helpmeet to man so why does man seek to subjugate woman because of his manifold inadequacies.

YIKES! Sounds like you're pretty angry at men in general!

Manifold inadequacies. Child. Puling Baby (whining, whimpering baby). Ego. Subjugate women. Immature. Unintelligent. Frustrated.

 

[hsmom3]

I have heard that some churches are now allowing female pastors, because the males will not take leadership. I do not believe 2 wrongs make a right.

In a case of families, I do not think that a woman should take leadership of the home when a man will not lead, but she does have to take the kids to church and teach them about the Lord if he won't. I lived through this, but often wondered if I stayed home from church, quietly teaching the children about the Lord at home, would he eventually have been convicted to take us? Did I take his leadership from him in taking the children to church and not allowing him to, when he got ready?

hsmom3

 

[Glory2God]

hsmom3,

AMEN!!! That's the biblical and godly response!!!
THAT'S What Prov 31 is all about!!!

 

[tamborine lady]

I think there is a misunderstanding of what these 2 words mean.

One is RULE,and this is what it means:04910. lvm mashal, maw-shal'
Search for 04910 in KJV

a primitive root; to rule:--(have, make to have) dominion, governor, X indeed, reign, (bear, cause to, have) rule(-ing, -r), have power.

Then there is lead, which means this: 05095. lhn nahal, naw-hal'
Search for 05095 in KJV

a primitive root; properly, to run with a sparkle, i.e. flow; hence (transitively), to conduct, and (by inference) to protect, sustain:--carry, feed, guide, lead (gently, on).

That was the Hebrew definition,

Here is the greek def. of lead3594. odhgew hodegeo, hod-ayg-eh'-o
Search for 3594 in KJV

from 3595; to show the way (literally or figuratively (teach)):--guide, lead.


See Greek 3595 (hodegos)

So, lead and rule have two different meanings here.

There is a big differencr in someone being a ruler. A ruler MAKES everyone do what he says. He has absolute authority. Like a KING.

On the other hand, a leader is someone who leads by example, with gentle nudges along the way. A leader is much softer in the way they lead than a ruler is in the way he rules.

There is a difference!!!

So the question is, "Is it a curse of God to have women rule?"

That is different than a woman being a leader!IMO.

Peace,

Tam

 

[John3v36]

Isaiah 3:12 - As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

It is a curse of God to have women rule?

If not what is this passage saying?




Deborah understood this she got Barak to lead she would not do it with out Barak. Now Barak had to have Deborah come along alike a mom-moms boy but it was Barak who lead not Deborah, Barak did.

 

[tamborine lady]

OOPS!!

My bad.

Nevermind.

(I'm slinking off to the corner to wear the dunce hat for awhile.)

Tam

 

[MargoWriter]

Yes, yes, agreed Diane.

Who, btw, is Condoleezza Rice???

And here's the bumper sticker for all political parties:

"Run, Hillary, Run!"

Democrats put it on the back bumper and republicans put it on the front bumper.

 

[Debby in Philly]

Originally posted by MargoWriter:
Who, btw, is Condoleezza Rice???

Uh, the Secretary of State of the United States of America!!!
Good for her.

 

[MargoWriter]

Hey, don't make fun of me.

I was always an expatriate wanna-be anyhow . . .

I'm all in favor of leaving politics to the men.

 

[Debby in Philly]

Originally posted by MargoWriter:
Hey, don't make fun of me.

I wasn't. Just my way of tooting her horn. I say, good for her. But I wouldn't want the job.

 

[music4Him]

Deborah understood this she got Barak to lead she would not do it with out Barak. Now Barak had to have Deborah come along alike a mom-moms boy but it was Barak who lead not Deborah, Barak did.
Barak said he wouldn't go unless she went. (Judges 4:6, and 8) So acually Barak wouldn't do it without her. But really, it was neither Deborah nor Barak that lead. In the end it was still the Lord that lead. (v.9, 14)