Socialism in America

[Ruiz]

Capitalism is not neutral. It is lust of money filled with the attraction of having as many toys as you can pile up or a fat bank account to give false security. That is not neutral, it is a way that seems right to a man.

It is neutral, in and of itself capitalism is neither good nor evil. Good and evil is supplied within the hearts of man. There will be some who take the opportunity of capitalism and do something good in this world. There are those who take capitalism and do something evil. Either way, the theories of capitalism are neutral. The theory itself is not a violation of God's law or an attack upon God's law. What people choose to do with capitalism is what makes it good or evil.

Socialism is the opposite, the theories of socialism are evil in that they clearly violate Biblical principles.

Capitalism is sorta like a gun. In and of itself a gun is not evil. Some will use it for good, others for evil. Yet, the gun is neutral. Only in the hands of good or evil does the gun take on that form but in and of itself it is neither.

 

[mandym]

Capitalism plays on the greed of mankind for getting more and more at the expense of others. Capitalism is merciless on the poor.

Cannot be proven. this is nothing more than propoganda

 

[Ruiz]

You are very correct. Capitalism is never neutral. Someone once said the essence of capitalism is what is mine is mine and what is yours is also mine. Capitalism plays on the greed of mankind for getting more and more at the expense of others. Capitalism is merciless on the poor.

I contend the opposite, capitalism/austrian economics is what makes the poor rich. Socialism and Communism makes the rich more. Keynesianism makes the rich richer and the poor poorer.

Capitalism is for those who can work hard, but it is an instrument and I would invite the principles of capitalism (austrian economics) that are evil. I supplied those for Socialism/Communism from a primary source. Thus, I expect no less for Austrian Economics.

 

[plain_n_simple]

It is neutral, in and of itself capitalism is neither good nor evil. Good and evil is supplied within the hearts of man. There will be some who take the opportunity of capitalism and do something good in this world. There are those who take capitalism and do something evil. Either way, the theories of capitalism are neutral. The theory itself is not a violation of God's law or an attack upon God's law. What people choose to do with capitalism is what makes it good or evil.

Socialism is the opposite, the theories of socialism are evil in that they clearly violate Biblical principles.

Capitalism is sorta like a gun. In and of itself a gun is not evil. Some will use it for good, others for evil. Yet, the gun is neutral. Only in the hands of good or evil does the gun take on that form but in and of itself it is neither.

Capitalism=Me and what I can do for me. Deny yourself to follow Him. You cannot serve two masters. Saying Capitalism is neutral is either a lack of understanding or a blind defense of what you love. Will Capitalism work without any God or religion? Yes. Can Christianity work without any type of man-made government? Absolutely. It is a theocracy, Jesus is Lord. Nothing the devil made is neutral. Everything the devil made looks attractive and seems right to a man.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

I contend the opposite, capitalism/austrian economics is what makes the poor rich. Socialism and Communism makes the rich more. Keynesianism makes the rich richer and the poor poorer.

Capitalism is for those who can work hard, but it is an instrument and I would invite the principles of capitalism (austrian economics) that are evil. I supplied those for Socialism/Communism from a primary source. Thus, I expect no less for Austrian Economics.

Ruiz, you keep attacking Marxism but, you're surprisingly quiet on mainstream social democratic views which reject Marxist principles.

 

[Ruiz]

Capitalism=Me and what I can do for me. Deny yourself to follow Him. You cannot serve two masters. Saying Capitalism is neutral is either a lack of understanding or a blind defense of what you love. Will Capitalism work without any God or religion? Yes. Can Christianity work without any type of man-made government? Absolutely. It is a theocracy, Jesus is Lord. Nothing the devil made is neutral. Everything the devil made looks attractive and seems right to a man.

Capitalism does not equal me. That is not the theory, that is what some may make it, but that is not the theory of Austrian Economics. Some people make capitalism about reaching people in Africa and giving them clean water. Others make it out of raising millions for the St. Jude's Hospital for children with diseases that could not afford treatment otherwise. Again, this is a tool that some can use for good and some can use for bad. But the theory in itself is not evil.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Show the plan of Marxism or Capitalism from God. You won't find the theories in the words of Jesus. If it did not come from God, guess where it came from?

 

[Ruiz]

Ruiz, you keep attacking Marxism but, you're surprisingly quiet on mainstream social democratic views which reject Marxist principles.

I am not a social democrat. Yes, I reject much of the Republican Party platform, but much of my beliefs were historically considered conservative. In recent years, "conservative" has changed to be something it was not by previous generations of conservatives. Thus, I am Pro-life, would never vote for someone otherwise. I do believe in a very limited government, that includes they should not but their nose into my family and home. Thus, I support homeschooling without any strings attached, but I also support the right for someone to be homosexual. I believe the latter is a sin, but not something that should be legislated. I am for peace, but that is in alignment to the Hugenots who were against most wars. I do believe in a just war theory, but my just war theory didn't change in the 20th century, but predates the Civil war, even the Revolutionary War.

Thus, to call me a social democrat is inaccurate. Mine is more nuanced and rooted in theories that both the Republicans and Democrats would hate.

 

[Ruiz]

Show the plan of Marxism or Capitalism from God. You won't find the theories in the words of Jesus. If it did not come from God, guess where it came from?

Marxism didn't come from God, but anti-God.

Capitalism didn't come from God. Neither did the Hubble Telescope, but I would not reject it from there.

A little background, I have an MA in Religion an MDiv, and an MBA. When studying economics, I wanted to devise an economic system from what the Bible commanded. To my surprise, I could not find one. I do believe the Bible contains principles of economics, but not a fully developed economic plan. Thus, I like Austrian Economics because of some of the principles of economics I see in the Bible. But, again, it is not fully from the Bible and there is not an economic theory that is derived from didactic teaching from the Bible.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Those letters behind your name are kinda neat but you have trouble finding the economic theory from Gods word. Not trying to discredit you because you seem to be earnest in finding the truth. God promised two things, food and clothes. Paul did well with nothing and an abundance. If you think Capitalism is a method or model to get abundance to then give away, that is also far from His Kingdom. He said if you love me, you'll keep my words.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

Thus, to call me a social democrat is inaccurate. Mine is more nuanced and rooted in theories that both the Republicans and Democrats would hate.

Ruiz, I never said you're a social democrat. I am a social democrat and was pointing out that you keep attacking Marxism but ignore more mainstream views like social democracy which reject the materialist underpinnings of Marxism.

 

[poncho]

And there in that lies the rub.

Do the corporations control government or does the government control the corporations? Or, do they form an evil alliance for their own mutual good?

Take a good long close look at it y'all. The corporations are the government now.

 

[Ruiz]

Ruiz, I never said you're a social democrat. I am a social democrat and was pointing out that you keep attacking Marxism but ignore more mainstream views like social democracy which reject the materialist underpinnings of Marxism.

Well, we began talking about economic theory. There is not a "Social Democrat" economic theory. Normally, democrats hold to an Keynesian Economic theory that I have already referred to. I would not call Keynesianism compassionate, rather, I believe it does violate some Biblical principles, though I would not call it evil like I call Socialism/Communism.

As for governmental social theory, there are several major theories. Mine states that the most compassionate system is one where people directly give to others, not out of compulsion but out of compassion. I do not think you can separate the heart of the giver and the gift received. Doing such is not helpful for society and I believe regressive as I will illustrate below.

Some believe you can separate the heart of the giver and the gift given. Thus, they believe compassion is taking other's money to give to people regardless of their desires, wants, or areas they wish to support. Thus, if you don't believe planned parenthood should be supported, you are still forced to give to such an entity. If you don't believe a food relief program is efficient and helpful, you are still forced to support this failed program.

Kofi Annan said in the United Nations 10 years ago to the governments of the world, "We can solve all the world's problems." The Governments of the world believed it but now after 10 years, they realize that their government solutions were utter failures. They also realized that charities actually solved more problems with fewer resources. Now, Governments are trying to utilize charities to do what they failed to do. Few believe Kofi's remarks anymore, which is a great progress in my opinion because charities demonstrate love of people with volunteers and staff who care and with money from those who give compassionately. This is a greater solution to our problems than the Social Democrat Method of forced charity.

Thus, if I had to choose between a government solution or a private solution, I believe charities are better equipped to truly care for people.

 

[Ruiz]

Take a good long close look at it y'all. The corporations are the government now.

Actually, I think it is the government controlling the companies. They dole out billions in corporate welfare. If you did away with all that tomorrow, the money from corporations to elections would dry up overnight.

 

[Robert Snow]

Cannot be proven. this is nothing more than propoganda

Anything that disagrees with your simplistic understands is propaganda, right?

BTW, if you don't learn to spell propaganda correctly, Rippon is likely to correct you. :laugh::laugh:

 

[poncho]

Actually, I think it is the government controlling the companies. They dole out billions in corporate welfare. If you did away with all that tomorrow, the money from corporations to elections would dry up overnight.

The giant corporations fund many "think tanks" that formulate government policy. The government doesn't make these policies it merely passes them into law for the giant corporations. Shouldn't the government be making it's own policies that favor we the people instead of adopting policies that favor the giant corporations from the giant corporation's own "think tanks"?

Sometimes this truth leaks out a bit in the mainstream media. For example, during a recent show on MSNBC, Dylan Ratigan made the following statement....

“The biggest contributor to Barack Obama’s presidential campaign is Goldman Sachs. The primary activities of this president relative to banking have been to protect the most lucrative aspect of that business, which is the dark market for credit default swaps and the like. That has been the explicit agenda of his Treasury Secretary. This president is advocating trade agreements that allow enhanced bank secrecy in Panama, enhanced murdering of union members in Colombia, and the refunding of North Korean slaves.”
​

Later on, Ratigan followed up by accusing both political parties of working for the bad guys....

“But I guess where I take issue is, this president is working for the bad guys. The Democrats are working for the bad guys. So are the Republicans. The Democrats get away with it by saying, ‘Look at how crazy the Republicans are; at the Democrats pretend to care about people.’ BUT THE FACT IS THE 2-PARTY POLITICAL SYSTEM IS UTTERLY BOGUS."
​

Wow - nobody is actually supposed to say that on television.

Link To Full Article . . .

 

[J.D.]

The heart of capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production (capital; property). Private property rights is well established in the Bible. It may not be commanded, but it certainly is presumed. Take for example Naboth's vineyard. Ahab, the King of Israel himself, could not lay claim to that property. Naboth had complete ownership rights over it. Ahab stole it by Jezabel's lies who trumped up a story to quell the uprising of the people against the King that would have surely separated him from his beloved stolen vineyard.

The husbandman had the right to pay a man that worked twelve hours a penny, and pay a man that worked one hour the same amount. The money was his, he owned it, and could do whatever he wanted to with it. The Bible says so. Therefore, capitalism is clearly biblical, and of God.

Socialism is based on stealing property from its rightful owners, or it steals the proprietary rights to the use of the property, depending on which version of socialism is in power. Therefore, it is sinful, violates the commandment of God, and is not of God.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Capitalism is based on individual rights, not deny yourself.

 

[J.D.]

Capitalism is based on individual rights, not deny yourself.

And how does one deny oneself unless he or she first owns certain individual rights that may be voluntarily denied? In socialism, there is nothing to be denied, because there is no "self" to be denied at all; the STATE is the cosmological person, not the individual.

 

[plain_n_simple]

And how does one deny oneself unless he or she first owns certain individual rights that may be voluntarily denied? In socialism, there is nothing to be denied, because there is no "self" to be denied at all; the STATE is the cosmological person, not the individual.

You owned that individual right when you were born. Satan is all about himself, pride, lust, greed. We became Satans nature when Adam fell. Selfish living, self ambitions, all sorts of lusts. When we are born again it is never about self, it is all about Him and becoming like Him. Love is never seeking for itself.