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Socialism in America

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
Maybe you need to do a little elementary study on the topic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
What that article said reminds me of what the people in Finland thought of socialism. When I asked them about socialism I quickly realized that they equated it with my view of communism. When I was many years younger I was taught that there was capitalism, socialism, and communism. Socialism was in the middle of capitalism and communism.
 

AresMan

Active Member
Site Supporter
You need to go study the variations of socialist thought. We're not stuck in the USSR anymore. Adopting socialism through a gradual, evolutionary process would be great for the United States.
But even in your fantasy about so-called "democratic socialism," there has to be someone to "police" the social policies. If something is "democratic," it is NOT "the will of the people." It is the will of the majority (50%+1 minimum). Those who do not desire the policies of the majority will have their voice of dissent pummeled every time! They will be forced to have their livelihoods subject to the whims of others who do not see things the way they do! They will ultimately have the gun of the majority put to their heads to comply and they will never be able to voice their "Enough Already!" complaints to any effect. No! Tyranny by monarchy, oligarchy, or democracy is still tyranny.

How about we just get back to the idea of individual liberty, for crying out loud. Let everyone have the freedom to do his own thing and keep the grubby mitts of the majority off. People today just can't stand the idea of "inalienable rights" from the Creator. They worship the god of democracy because they want the majority to be able to legislate away any rights they deem fit for the "good" of "society," you see.
 

righteousdude2

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Not to Throw Cold Water on You...

Why is it the U.S. doesn't have a major party which advocates democratic socialism or social democracy like Canada, the UK, and Australia do? It seems to me that our two major parties simply want to tweak the current system as opposed to making major changes.

Maybe a better plan would be to try to bring social democracy to one state. I don't think it would work too well in my home state of Florida because the voters aren't left-wing enough. Perhaps Vermont would be a better bet because they elected the only socialist U.S. Senator, Bernie Sanders.

What do y'all think? What would it take to bring socialism to America?

...but if you desire socialism so badly, why not pack up and move to one of those nations, you mentioned.

One board member said Americans have a negative view of socialism...no kidding. I liked this country the way it was before Carter, Reagan, Bush, Sr, Clinton, Bush and Obama came into power. Carter showed us that another nation could hold us hostage, from the safety of their own sovereignty; Reagan started the rush of illegal immigrants praying for amnesty; Bush Sr taught us not to believe what the lips of our leaders; Clinton taught us to accept immorality in DC; Bush destroyed all the good he developed early on in his presidency; and Obama has brought us change we don't want or need! :BangHead:

And all the while, these leaders tapped out the banks of Japan and China to cover the cost of printing money that had no actual monetary value.

Whether it's four more years of Obama, or four years with one of those wishy-washy GOP candidates beating each other up for the opportunity to beat up Barrack, the results will be the same: National negligence! How pathetic patriotism has become!
 

glfredrick

New Member
Don't look now, but it's already here, and there IS a major party behind it: the Democrats. And if Obama is re-elected, it's here forever.

I was going to say the same thing!

The CPUSA (Communist Party of USA) has stopped running their own candidate for President. The offering by the Democrat Party is good enough for them. They also take a LOT of credit for pressing the ideas that currently drive the party -- union activity, civil unrest (99% thing), government involvement in schools, Obama-care, social security, centralized planning, etc.

There are TWO major distinctions between the politics of Americans running for office (and a thousand minor ones, that may or may not be in keeping with the TWO). They are:

1. Our RIGHTS and FREEDOM stem from the created order, as ordained by God.

2. We have only the rights and freedom granted to us by our overlords and masters who rule us.

The Declaration of Independence for America lays out the position as well as any document formulated by the hand of man through all of history:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,[75] that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

The converse is the philosophical idea of Plato, from "Republic" where a nation of philosopher-kings rules over the populace, with all decisions made on behalf of the populace BY the P-Ks; from Thomas More's "Utopia" where an island is formed (see Ron Paul) by carving out a section of land apart from any other nation and a government of King Utopa, and where all the people are tightly controlled to produce for each other's needs; from Hobbes, "Leviathan," where a nation of persons was ruled by a sovereign who had all rights, and where the people worked communally to further their national efforts, but had no individual rights; and from Marx's "Communist Manifesto" where the proletariat rebel against the bourgeoisie to form a working man's class that would rule by union and centralized planning.

Of the candidates currently running, ONLY Santorum has a clue about the true nature of the efforts. Romney, Paul, Gingrich, and CERTAINLY Obama, are on the side of the Utopians, and whatever other conservative values or planks they offer, they are yet more like socialists than not. Again, it is not the surface issues that drive the major difference between candidates, it is the underlying philosophy, and that philosophy is what DRIVES THEIR LATER ACTIONS, hence the flip-flopping, broken promises, increase of government control, etc.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The Liberal media will never allow Rick S passage to the presidency....I saw that last night while watching the news & again in the morning. It amazes me how much weight they have with the viewing public.:mad:
 

FR7 Baptist

Active Member
I think what all you people don't get is that democratic socialism fully supports individual liberties. I'm a socialist and a strong supporter of protecting civil liberties. I fully support the United States Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Florida. When I was a decennial Census worker I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

What I want to do is extend democratic principles into the economy. We know that cooperative institutions can work. For example, the credit union movement has been very successful. Credit unions didn't wreck the economy; the big banks did. I'm a member of a small credit union for people with my religious affiliation. I love my credit union because I get good service from the employees and I get a free share draft account with a debit card.

The only downside is sometimes people look down on me for being a socialist. I see it on this board sometimes. One time, I told someone from church that I'm a socialist and now she thinks I'm a weirdo.
 

glfredrick

New Member
The Liberal media will never allow Rick S passage to the presidency....I saw that last night while watching the news & again in the morning. It amazes me how much weight they have with the viewing public.:mad:

This election cycle has already broken all the rules (except the one about Ron Paul).
 

glfredrick

New Member
I think what all you people don't get is that democratic socialism fully supports individual liberties. I'm a socialist and a strong supporter of protecting civil liberties. I fully support the United States Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Florida. When I was a decennial Census worker I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

What I want to do is extend democratic principles into the economy. We know that cooperative institutions can work. For example, the credit union movement has been very successful. Credit unions didn't wreck the economy; the big banks did. I'm a member of a small credit union for people with my religious affiliation. I love my credit union because I get good service from the employees and I get a free share draft account with a debit card.

The only downside is sometimes people look down on me for being a socialist. I see it on this board sometimes. One time, I told someone from church that I'm a socialist and now she thinks I'm a weirdo.

No... It GIVES THE IMPRESSION that it supports liberty because the people still have some say in the election of their masters.

The ENTIRE concept of socialism, from beginning to end, has its roots in utopian centralized control by an individual or group of individuals OVER and ABOVE the general populace, who "naturally" do not know what is best for them.

Contrast that worldview with John Locke, who promulgated the founding view of America, in that ALL PEOPLE have GOD-GIVEN rights that government cannot control, and those rights are individual freedom, liberty, and the ability to prosper towards a happy life because "naturally" men desire to be their own masters instead of serving masters.
 

glfredrick

New Member
The United States can be best described as a democratic republic.

We were never even intended to be a democratic Republic.

Our Framers wrote the Constitution so that our representatives, including the POTUS would be selected by persons who understood the process and who supported the right of the states in an anti-federalist manner.

Senators were appointed by the STATES. The President was (and still is) elected by the electors, not by popular vote. Only the House of Representatives was directly elected in a democratic fashion, and all of the above was to insure the true balance of power -- something that has since been overturned.
 

billwald

New Member
>>The United States can be best described as a democratic republic.

>We were never even intended to be a democratic Republic.


We are a country of laws and the laws we have are a direct logical result of the 2nd US Revolution which produced the Constitution.
 
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