Yes ...
The french government gave, as a loan, 5 Billion € to our BNP/Paribas bank which needed it to avoid " bankrupcy ", and last month the bank provisioned 1 billion to pay the traders bonuses
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Socialist : an insult ?
- Thread starter Spear
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Yes ...
The french government gave, as a loan, 5 Billion € to our BNP/Paribas bank which needed it to avoid " bankrupcy ", and last month the bank provisioned 1 billion to pay the traders bonuses
....Careful, now...let's not pretend that China doesn't have stunning and sickening violations of freedom of speech and religion. Just saying...
It's worth mentioning that we're seeing a bit of an anti-socialism swing in several European countries. Could folks be tiring of freedoms being curtailed? I hope so.
Just the pendulum swinging, I would suspect. And Merkel's CDU/CSU Party in Germany and Sarkozy's UMP in France are better described as centre-right rather than right-wing; neither advocate the dismantling of the Welfare State as it exists in their respective countries (heck, even Thatcher here didn't do that; she retained the National Health Service and she's about as right-wing as anyone gets over here). There's also a danger in conflating left-wing with authoritarian (your reference to Europeans wanting 'freedom'): Thatcher's government was right-wing but quite authoritarian in nature (big on 'law and order', greater regulation of social behaviour etc) whereas Harold Wilson's Labour government of 1964-70 was much more libertarian on those sort of issues. Right -v- left and libertarian -v- authoritarian are not correlated axes.
Magnetic Poles
New Member
Yeah..wonderful thing...that freedom to be unable to see a doctor because you happen to be poor.
Where health care is seen as a privilege, only the privileged will receive health care.
Come on, MP, let's not put words in folks' mouths...
Socialism inherently involves more government control. Socialized medicine means more government intrusion into one's personal life. Plain and simple.
We all have "default" settings. I "default" to freedom over government control.
And no...that analogy cannot be taken to the extreme of antinomian anarchy. But there is another extreme...one that in my opinion is more likely to occur: the overreach of the arm of the state.
And from reading Paine, Madison, Jefferson, and others...I think they worried about it as well.
Well, you're more of a leftie than me! But I guess some here would cover us both with the blanket appelation of 'socialist'...
Commies!:tongue3:
How do you define a "corporate fascist state?"
I'm honored Jim !
You prepare the tea, i'll bring the cakes and the chocolates
To all, i'm speaking from the heart. I don't encourage laziness, or force anyone to share. But our world is more and more individualist, and i consider myself a progressist (and not a polical leftist), by willing to do so that everyone can have a minimum.
Of course, everyone must make an effort, in terms or integration if he comes from a foreign country, learn the language, meet people from his new nation, find a job and so on ... everyone must try hard to find some work, and learn new competences if necessary. There are so many topics about that. I'm straight in one thing : we must give people the possibility to learn the langage, to find the job, ... if these possibilities clearly exist, and people don't follow, then they've got NO excuse, and i won't support them.
Let's start by giving and sharing, we'll at least know we've done the right thing.
A shelter and enough to eat everyday, that would be normal, no ?
Economic Left/Right: -2.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.64
I'm about on the same level as Ghandi on the Social Libertarian/Authoritarian scale but much closer to the center on the Economic Left/Right scale. Close to Ghandi, whom I consider to be one of the greatest champions for freedom and civil liberty in modern times, is a great place to be in my view.
Robert Snow
New Member
Economic Left/Right -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -3.59
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -3.59
In that Ghandi never took this test, who is to say where he would fall on the chart?
I took the test and found the questions to be so subject to interpretation as to make the whole thing meaningless.
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
Economic Left/Right: 3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.18
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.18
To see mine... click here
Economic Left/Right: 6.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.54
I am close to Thatcher.. I figured that...
Economic Left/Right: 6.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.54
I am close to Thatcher.. I figured that...
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poncho
Well-Known Member
Like this.
1. It is a system where business interests and motives are held supreme over the interests of the public – usually leading to detrimental impacts on the public good.
2. It is a system where government has compromised every ounce of its duty, in order to serve the interests of the power brokers and money men through the legislation of laws and policies which benefit the rich and the corporations over those of the society.
3. It is a system where members of the government and the business community are indistinguishable from each other. Thus leading to patronage and cronyism beyond the normal expectations of a government official.
4. It is a system dominated by think-tanks and lobbying groups that influence politicians to act in the benefit of the industries and businesses they represent.
5. It is a system where politicians are corrupted and compromised through significant political contributions by big business (both under and over the table).
6. It is a system where the military, government and business are indistinguishable from each other. Succinctly described by Eisenhower as the “military industrial complex”.
7. It is a system where no distinction can be made between the overall policies and stances taken by opposing political parties within the Corpofascist system. The approach may differ, but the end result is the same.
8. It is a system with a domineering drive to reduce the scope of public services and the continued drive to privatize essential societal needs – health, education, welfare, etc.
9. It is a system where the public is inundated with propagandized rhetoric in order to distract them from the important issues. This maintains resistance to a minimum and enables the corporate interests to be served unabated.
Once a government structure begins to exhibit the above characteristics, it is safe to say that the government is now simply a tool – a very powerful tool at that – to serve the interest of the corporate masters. The checks and balances that once existed to keep government from falling into such a state have effectively been overwhelmed and defeated. The system is effectively broken and replaced with a Corpofascist operating racket.
Once this has occurred the government is used by the business and corporate interests not to further the advancement or well-being of the people, but instead to further the profit making abilities of the corporation. Laws and regulations are passed which benefit business by the same people that only months or a few years ago were commanding figures in industry and business. These “public citizens” now passing legislation were once minions serving as officers or directors for large multinational corporations. Their allegiance does not lie with the commoner, but with the industrial elites to whom they once belonged or to whom they owe their election financing. These same individuals maintain close business relationships and once their terms in office are complete frequently return to serve with the same corporations that they did before office or that they generously assisted while in office. The entire system is structured as a self-perpetuating revolving door that continues to perpetuate the corporate benefactor.
< snip >
When the veneer of goodwill is removed and dissent within the society begins to stir, the domestic populace is subject to strategies of harm reduction. Dissenters are characterized as unpatriotic, terrorist sympathizers and the all too common anti-semitic. Domestic criticism is quelled and laws are passed by the society to clamp down on citizen protests. The domestic police force is increasingly militarized in order to scare and confront the citizenry. Instead of serving and protecting the people they serve and protect the interests of the elite and the business powers.
While overt action against dissenters is taken the mass populace is kept in a state of ignorance. The corporate media feed them dribble about insignificant events which would be better served to be written on toilet paper. Stories of non-events are pumped, exaggerated and continually reported on by “experts” and “respected” members of the media. Celebrity gossip dominates the airwaves as a way to distract the individual from their own lives and important events. This is just fine for the Corpofascists.
Political discourse and debate is drawn down to severe partisan lines, whereby perceived differences are introduced within the political parties, despite the fact that the overall goal – the advancement of the corporate interest – is still paramount. Issues of debate between the political parties in the respective house of government focus on “distracting issues.” While important issues in their own rights – abortion, gay-rights, women’s rights, minority rights, etc. – these bear no relation to the prevailing problem with the sick society. No mention is made or attention paid to the domineering influence of the corporation within all aspects of the society. Corporate interests at all levels are hidden, minimized or protected by the Corpofascists even though vital areas of the citizenry are impacted – food, water, health, education, civil rights, human rights, domestic policy, foreign policy, energy security, and on and on.
It might do everyone here some good to read the ENTIRE ARTICLE, a few times and let it sink in. This is the state we're living in today.
A corporate fascist state.
This needs repeating imho...
9. It is a system where the public is inundated with propagandized rhetoric in order to distract them from the important issues. This maintains resistance to a minimum and enables the corporate interests to be served unabated.
Did ya catch that? No? I'll repeat it again.
9. It is a system where the public is inundated with propagandized rhetoric in order to distract them from the important issues. This maintains resistance to a minimum and enables the corporate interests to be served unabated.
One more time.
9. It is a system where the public is inundated with propagandized rhetoric in order to distract them from the important issues. This maintains resistance to a minimum and enables the corporate interests to be served unabated.
So, is "socialist an insult?" Who cares? It's a distraction from the real issue! And that issue is we're living in a corporate fascist state! The real question is . . . what are you going to do about it now that you know it?
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