This video format is similar to the "Screwtape Letters", except instead of the wiring being from a demon to an upper demon it's from a Christian Pastor to a supposed random young man.
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Some Clarity on Modern Day Male/Woman Role Confusion
- Thread starter Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin
- Start date
SLAM DUNK!!!!
I got three things out of this [well, I'll just list three] that were cringe worthy to me and a little hurtful. [You DID say that this was supposed to be a pastor talking to a young man.]
So here is what the young man is supposed to learn about women.
1. "The Apostle Paul wants the women to make the sandwiches."
2. "Part of our general sexual DOWNGRADE has been the result of WOMEN, even Christian women, thinking that men have a responsibility to be oriented to the relationship the same way the women are."
3. [IMPLIED] Women only read and write Hallmark books/movies and could and would never enjoy a book or movie that a man would enjoy, ergo, that proves that all the time it's a woman's fault and it's a woman's fault all the time.
I understand that men and women are different. But also, I hate Hallmark books and movies. I LOVE Call of the Wild, C.S. Lewis, the Avengers, and more.
I do love Jane Austen, as her novels are more DEEP critiques of the idiotic social mores of the day - written for the highly intelligent woman. I hate other romance novels as they mostly include a woman unwillingly marrying her rapist [but we are supposed to pretend it wasn't] and that marriage of convenience throughout the book supposedly turning into love. Pretty sick stuff. Most women I know abhor this stuff.
He, in his attempt to NOT be stereotypical, cast women in a terrible stereotypical light. I am not that woman at all.
So here is what the young man is supposed to learn about women.
1. "The Apostle Paul wants the women to make the sandwiches."
2. "Part of our general sexual DOWNGRADE has been the result of WOMEN, even Christian women, thinking that men have a responsibility to be oriented to the relationship the same way the women are."
3. [IMPLIED] Women only read and write Hallmark books/movies and could and would never enjoy a book or movie that a man would enjoy, ergo, that proves that all the time it's a woman's fault and it's a woman's fault all the time.
I understand that men and women are different. But also, I hate Hallmark books and movies. I LOVE Call of the Wild, C.S. Lewis, the Avengers, and more.
I do love Jane Austen, as her novels are more DEEP critiques of the idiotic social mores of the day - written for the highly intelligent woman. I hate other romance novels as they mostly include a woman unwillingly marrying her rapist [but we are supposed to pretend it wasn't] and that marriage of convenience throughout the book supposedly turning into love. Pretty sick stuff. Most women I know abhor this stuff.
He, in his attempt to NOT be stereotypical, cast women in a terrible stereotypical light. I am not that woman at all.
Regarding the 3rd item. I didn't want a massive block of text so I separated out #3
I would agree that you wouldn't fit the stereotype, but that doesn't negate the fact that women are by and large emotional and relationship based. Stereotypes are good. God uses Stereotypes. There will always be examples of someone not fitting a stereotype, but by and large most do fit.
Ex:
-Pharisees are broods of vipers, even though Jesus knew about Nicodemus who was likely a Pharisee or in their company at times
-The Bible talks about "generations" being evil, even though there are born-again folks in them
I don't think he actively tries to not be stereotypical. In fact, he would likely try to be stereotypical.
I would agree that you wouldn't fit the stereotype, but that doesn't negate the fact that women are by and large emotional and relationship based. Stereotypes are good. God uses Stereotypes. There will always be examples of someone not fitting a stereotype, but by and large most do fit.
Ex:
-Pharisees are broods of vipers, even though Jesus knew about Nicodemus who was likely a Pharisee or in their company at times
-The Bible talks about "generations" being evil, even though there are born-again folks in them
Regarding 1 and 2:
My wife for example looks after our flock of children in addition to running farm deliveries, house chores, butchering chickens, butchering turkeys, occasional farm chores, shopping chores and occasional business chores that I will sometimes delegate.
2. It may not have been clear in the video, but Orientation here is addressing the God-Given Adam vs Eve Dichotomy. He is referencing that Adam was created to be the gardener. Eve was created to help the gardener.
In other words, men are oriented by God to be mission minded as each man is given a mission. A wife is given to a man to be his helper in that mission. A man's mission may be to be a Missionary in a foreign country, to farm, to woodwork, etc. Whatever it may be, it is her duty to assist her husband in that mission.
Thus modern women expecting things to be relationship oriented are in for a surprise when they find out that man is mission oriented, and therefore this has caused a sex roles downgrade. This is an aspect of "Biblical/Christian Patriarchy", which is likely foreign to mainstream "Complementarianism".
1. It may be hurtful, but also true. This should be something every man should look for, and this is one of the attributes that I tell younger men to look for. A woman should feed her husband and family, and not be offended by it.
My wife for example looks after our flock of children in addition to running farm deliveries, house chores, butchering chickens, butchering turkeys, occasional farm chores, shopping chores and occasional business chores that I will sometimes delegate.
2. It may not have been clear in the video, but Orientation here is addressing the God-Given Adam vs Eve Dichotomy. He is referencing that Adam was created to be the gardener. Eve was created to help the gardener.
In other words, men are oriented by God to be mission minded as each man is given a mission. A wife is given to a man to be his helper in that mission. A man's mission may be to be a Missionary in a foreign country, to farm, to woodwork, etc. Whatever it may be, it is her duty to assist her husband in that mission.
Thus modern women expecting things to be relationship oriented are in for a surprise when they find out that man is mission oriented, and therefore this has caused a sex roles downgrade. This is an aspect of "Biblical/Christian Patriarchy", which is likely foreign to mainstream "Complementarianism".
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---- It may not have been clear in the video, but Orientation here is addressing the God-Given Adam vs Eve Dichotomy. He is referencing that Adam was created to be the gardener. Eve was created to help the gardener.
In other words, men are oriented by God to be mission minded as each man is given a mission. A wife is given to a man to be his helper in that mission. A man's mission may be to be a Missionary in a foreign country, to farm, to woodwork, etc. Whatever it may be, it is her duty to assist her husband in that mission.
Thus modern women expecting things to be relationship oriented are in for a surprise when they find out that man is mission oriented, and therefore this has caused a sex roles downgrade. This is an aspect of "Biblical/Christian Patriarchy", which is likely foreign to mainstream "Complementarianism".[/QUO
All of the above is most certainly screwed in modern societal thinking!!
All this straight-from-hell garbage regarding sex (sex per se`, queers, bi's, trans etc.) that has prevailed politically & socially is nothing more than satan's way of trying to totally eliminate the "God given plan" from working! I must say he has done a pretty effective job thus far, especially with so many WILLING participants in his strategy!!
Here's what I mean by this video purports only the stereotypical.
A man/husband should definitely have a mission and he should be mission-minded. But if he is to be a godly husband, then he MUST work on the relationship alongside his wife. To be relationship minded means:
A man's mission is whatever God calls him to do and be. And ONE of those important things is a godly husband.
I feel he too sharply divided the man and the women into two non-compatible and combative beings.
God made man and woman different. But he did not make the woman stupid. The Hebrew for "help meet" is "ezer kenegdo"
"Ezer" being Hebrew for "help" in the sense of "a succor or relief particularly in stressful times". I tell this to ladies when I speak at women's groups and I ask them, "ARE you are relief to your husband?" That's your job. To get a better idea of what "ezer" means as "help", there are 14 verses in the Old Testament where that very word is used for God, Himself. Such as Psalm 33:20.
God and the woman - "relief". This does not make her divine, nor a goddess, nor above her husband. But it makes her role in the marriage so much more than just "the help". Just as men get to share the name "father" with THE Father, women get to share the attribute "ezer" - relief - with God. Her role is strong and soothing and something he needs very, very much.
"Kenegdo" is hard to translate, but it comes from "neged" mean "in front of yet opposing". I tell ladies that this means that men and women are different in many ways, yet face to face, those differences make the marriage work. I use the idea of two hands needed to rake the leaves and pine straw. One hand has a thumb on the right and the other hand has a thumb on the left. Those two hands MUST face in opposite directions on that rake for the rake to be best used. One hand faces palm up and the other palm down.
Men and women ARE different. But this man in this video reduces women to bimbos who are only interested in romance novels and they are the ones who degrade sexual roles.
Women, biblically speaking, are so much more than he thinks. And men are so much more than he thinks.
A man/husband should definitely have a mission and he should be mission-minded. But if he is to be a godly husband, then he MUST work on the relationship alongside his wife. To be relationship minded means:
- praying for and with each other
- forgiving each other
- reminding each other how grateful they are for each other
- saying thank you often
- supporting, encouraging, communicating, and loving/respecting one another
- being concerned and working HARD to fix things in the relationship when they go awry and no marriage is immune from problems
- and much more
A man's mission is whatever God calls him to do and be. And ONE of those important things is a godly husband.
I feel he too sharply divided the man and the women into two non-compatible and combative beings.
God made man and woman different. But he did not make the woman stupid. The Hebrew for "help meet" is "ezer kenegdo"
"Ezer" being Hebrew for "help" in the sense of "a succor or relief particularly in stressful times". I tell this to ladies when I speak at women's groups and I ask them, "ARE you are relief to your husband?" That's your job. To get a better idea of what "ezer" means as "help", there are 14 verses in the Old Testament where that very word is used for God, Himself. Such as Psalm 33:20.
God and the woman - "relief". This does not make her divine, nor a goddess, nor above her husband. But it makes her role in the marriage so much more than just "the help". Just as men get to share the name "father" with THE Father, women get to share the attribute "ezer" - relief - with God. Her role is strong and soothing and something he needs very, very much.
"Kenegdo" is hard to translate, but it comes from "neged" mean "in front of yet opposing". I tell ladies that this means that men and women are different in many ways, yet face to face, those differences make the marriage work. I use the idea of two hands needed to rake the leaves and pine straw. One hand has a thumb on the right and the other hand has a thumb on the left. Those two hands MUST face in opposite directions on that rake for the rake to be best used. One hand faces palm up and the other palm down.
Men and women ARE different. But this man in this video reduces women to bimbos who are only interested in romance novels and they are the ones who degrade sexual roles.
Women, biblically speaking, are so much more than he thinks. And men are so much more than he thinks.
5 point Gillinist
Active Member
I like Doug Wilson, but he's not for the faint of heart or the overly sensitive on many topics.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
As our society becomes softer and more and more jobs don't require traditional male attributes I think it does become harder for men to really feel satisfied or necessary. But honestly, any downgrade in the overall society can be laid more at our feet than women, especially Christian women.
I have seen "men" turn down jobs when their family really needs the money because they just can't work indoors. I saw a man quit his job because the Lord told him to play music instead of work - and of course his wife and kids had no support. I have listened to fellow men gripe about the wife buying shoes for the kids while standing next to his truck with 800 dollars worth of tires on it - and that is prices years ago. I saw a Christian man run the family completely dry racing motorcycles while telling her to submit because it's biblical. These may be extreme examples but they are all true.
Closer to home. Men, even Christian men, spend way more of the family's disposable income than women do with the guns, fishing tackle, boats, motorcycles and of course we have to have a 60,000 dollar vehicle to tow all the stuff and we don't want a minivan because we'd look like a liberal you know what. Pansy men that don't like the outdoors are just as guilty when they have a golf club membership and of course you have to have some kind of titanium or unobtanium driver, and lessons too, and you spend just as many Saturdays away from the family as the rest of us do in a tree stand. Men who don't have money or interest in the above still dress like overgrown school children with big baggy shorts and oversize tops and thousands of dollars worth of tattoos and goofy hair, beards and piercings. We're the ones who have dropped the ball, not the women.
Now of course, I'm completely innocent of all the above, except the guns, fishing gear and motorcycles so I can say all this. But if it honks you off, men, understand that that is exactly the way Christian women feel when a big blowhard like Doug Wilson gets on there and begins to preach to women to be happy making sandwiches. And I don't blame 'em.
I have seen "men" turn down jobs when their family really needs the money because they just can't work indoors. I saw a man quit his job because the Lord told him to play music instead of work - and of course his wife and kids had no support. I have listened to fellow men gripe about the wife buying shoes for the kids while standing next to his truck with 800 dollars worth of tires on it - and that is prices years ago. I saw a Christian man run the family completely dry racing motorcycles while telling her to submit because it's biblical. These may be extreme examples but they are all true.
Closer to home. Men, even Christian men, spend way more of the family's disposable income than women do with the guns, fishing tackle, boats, motorcycles and of course we have to have a 60,000 dollar vehicle to tow all the stuff and we don't want a minivan because we'd look like a liberal you know what. Pansy men that don't like the outdoors are just as guilty when they have a golf club membership and of course you have to have some kind of titanium or unobtanium driver, and lessons too, and you spend just as many Saturdays away from the family as the rest of us do in a tree stand. Men who don't have money or interest in the above still dress like overgrown school children with big baggy shorts and oversize tops and thousands of dollars worth of tattoos and goofy hair, beards and piercings. We're the ones who have dropped the ball, not the women.
Now of course, I'm completely innocent of all the above, except the guns, fishing gear and motorcycles so I can say all this. But if it honks you off, men, understand that that is exactly the way Christian women feel when a big blowhard like Doug Wilson gets on there and begins to preach to women to be happy making sandwiches. And I don't blame 'em.
I've never heard anybody except this guy argue that an androgynous lifestyle for all is the objective of "the liberals." Can anyone provide examples?
[1Pe 3:1-9 NASB95] 1 In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any [of them] are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 2 as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior. 3 Your adornment must not be [merely] external--braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; 4 but [let it be] the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. 5 For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; 6 just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear. 7 You husbands in the same way, live with [your wives] in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered. 8 To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit; 9 not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing.
The bottom line on this often-quoted passage is both husbands and wives should treat their mate with respect and Christian love as Jesus exhorts us all to do with anyone.
[Gal 3:28 KJV] 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
The bottom line on this often-quoted passage is both husbands and wives should treat their mate with respect and Christian love as Jesus exhorts us all to do with anyone.
[Gal 3:28 KJV] 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
You're exactly right. In Jesus day I guess the Jews were divorcing their wives for burning the toast. And the gentiles were worse. Augustine talks about how the minimum age for marriage was 12 or 14 and women could be chosen 2 years earlier. He also wrote about how so many women bore permanent scars on their faces from getting beaten by their husbands. Christianity was radical in teaching men how to treat women.
No, the bottom line is that husbands are to be treated with respect by the wife submitting to her husband in all things.
And husbands are to treat their wives the way a weaker and more fragile vessel is to be treated, with love NOT respect. You don't treat a wife like you do your male friends.
[QUOTE="FollowTheWay, post: 2764623, member: 11730"]
[Gal 3:28 KJV] 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, we are all one in Christ Jesus. We are also Male and Female here on Earth and God makes it plain as day in Scripture that males have certain roles and females have certain roles and those roles are to be adhered to. Unless of course you think the massive amounts of Scripture testifying to gender roles are incorrect?
Christian Patriarchy, not some watered-down, limp wristed unbiblical mutual submission Complementarianism doctrine, is what is going to cause the Church to rise out of the ashes of Western Civilization.
Males are heads of their house and their duties are to instruct their wives and children, and to order the household to be of service to God.
Your exact verse is brought up around 10:00 in the below video.
Sure, let's look at our world for 1/10th of a second.
Godly Masculinity is attacked by Liberals as Toxic Masculinity while Females are encouraged to be more masculine through Feminism.
"It's Good to Be a Man" is a good book to read for more on this topic as is this Sermon by Michael Foster. Begins at 2:30
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
If you just mean that love is to be emphasized then I'm with you. But I think the Proverbs 31 woman is respected, not just loved. And of course you don't treat your wife like you do your male friends.
Wilson is right in that guys with his viewpoint better make sure they find a woman who shares the same view or they will both be miserable. And then pray that she doesn't someday realize that a lot of men, even Christian men, really do love AND respect their wives as well. I used to joke and say, "The most disappointing thing I found with this strain of reformed Calvinist, Presbyterian, Baptist, homeschooling, Christianity was when I discovered that when they talked about spanking their wives they actually meant spanking their wives!
I think it was Winston Churchill who said "The battle of the sexes will never be won. There is too much fraternization with the enemy".
Let up on the politics. Yes, there are differences between men and women. Should these be used to prevent women from using their tallents for the Lord as you argue? Should they be used to subgegate women and " put them in their place? " No. Jesus worked with women in a much more egalitarian way than was the custom in His time. I'll stand on Paul's statement about equality in the Kingdom. You can stand with this whathisname.
Strange that you ask for examples of modern day androgyny in a political forum then get upset when I give you some. Hmm...
Quote where anyone said that please. Straw man.
Are you aware that God's Word necessarily subjugates everyone to His will? You are God's footstool. You are subjugated as am I, as are all women.
0 bearing on this conversation. We are talking about what God's Word says, not cultural norms in different times. The way Jesus interacted with women would be considered "Misogyny" by Feminists nowadays.
Great, you stand on Paul's one verse and I will stand on the entirety of the rest of scripture in its proper context.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
I agree. Liberals do that. And some of the women I've seen lately work out so much that they are starting to look scary. But Liberals are doing it, aided by pansies and feminists. I don't want to see Christian men make the mistake of thinking that the reason for all this is that we have been too kind and respectful to women. I've been around conservative Christian church all my life and honestly, most Christian women want a man who will lead the home and family and be involved in church and the community.
5 point Gillinist
Active Member
I'd be interested to know which of Paul's statements you are speaking of, are you referring to Galatians 2:28?
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
Yes. It's found in Galatians 2:28 as well as in Hezekiah 4:13.
1 Corinthians 7:33-34. But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided.
Paul had it right. If she's happy, you'll be happy. And the worldly things you need are food and um... Well there's something else but at my age I can't remember. That's what I would counsel young men. Also, get over to the girls house a few times before you are married. You need to find out if her mom is a good cook - the girl will most likely learn if that's the case but for a while you two will get by on burnt offerings and dessert, I promise. You also need to stop by unexpected to see what she looks like without her makeup. This is not rocket science.
1 Corinthians 7:33-34. But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided.
Paul had it right. If she's happy, you'll be happy. And the worldly things you need are food and um... Well there's something else but at my age I can't remember. That's what I would counsel young men. Also, get over to the girls house a few times before you are married. You need to find out if her mom is a good cook - the girl will most likely learn if that's the case but for a while you two will get by on burnt offerings and dessert, I promise. You also need to stop by unexpected to see what she looks like without her makeup. This is not rocket science.