Okay. I see now. You have confused and conflated free will with the ability to choose. Not the same thing at all. Completely different subjects.
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Some of the best Conditional “IF” Statements in the NT
- Thread starter Samuels
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I wouldn't go that far. When Scripture speaks of the goats and sheep it is an illustration of God separating people "when the Son of Man comes in glory".
We may see one not walking in the light and if nonreoentant he is expelled. But we cannot discern the heart with certanity. He may indeed be saved and God may be working in his life, convicting him towards repentance. He may be unsaved. But we do know that if he abandons the faith then he was among the church but never truly a part of them.
You are misunderstanding my post. YOU are the one who is saying something the Verse does not say. I am in full agreement with what My Lord Jesus has said and my response is, "Because i DO love My Lord i will Keep His Commandments."
Your poor human reasoning skills has led you down a path of works based salvation that is No salvation. You are on the path that is wide and leads to destruction.
Be careful. Be very careful.
Jon already knows what salvation is all about. It would behoove you to obey the forum rules and not question the salvation of other posters.
You have no idea what Jon has learned in church. Again, be careful.
You are free to expound on what the NT teaches, but you must also allow Jon to speak for himself regarding what he believes, what his church teaches, and what the bible has to say on the subject.
Acts 16:29-31 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Your progressive salvation is not taught in scripture.
You are either saved and kept saved or you're not saved at all.
Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
Either you believe or you don't.
John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
You are either a child of God through Faith in Jesus Christ or you are a child of satan.
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Salvation
Saved from the penalty of sin (eternal death)-Justification
Being saved from the power of sin-sanctification
Will be saved from the presence of sin- glorification
This is the guarantee of Salvation...The Moment you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
One is saved when they are positionally, right or justified before God through imputed righteousness that comes from Christ.
Now, a Christian can be out of FELLOWSHIP with God and that is usually the misunderstanding in discussions like this.
We can't earn favor with God, we cannot bribe Him to get into heaven. Loving God doesn't get us into heaven, Loving God is a result of God's love to us by pardoning us through Christ's sacrifice.
We love God because He first loved us.
1 John 4:13-16, 19 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
We love him, because he first loved us.
Also, I don't think it can get any clearer...
Titus 3:4-7 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
And we then reciprocate the Love that God has shown us.
But unless our nature changes we will still continue in selfish motives
And the Bible does speak to a new nature within us, one that can Love as God desires us to...
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him
Romans 6:4, 7, 14, 18, 23 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Titus 3:4-7 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
And we then reciprocate the Love that God has shown us.
But unless our nature changes we will still continue in selfish motives
And the Bible does speak to a new nature within us, one that can Love as God desires us to...
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him
Romans 6:4, 7, 14, 18, 23 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Yes, of course, but you have to understand WHO Jesus was talking about.
That is the question, isn't it?
E.G. Paul was writing ONLY to the "faithful" (see Eph 1:1 and Col 1:2).
IMO, all of those great and wonderful PROMISES and BLESSINGS are ONLY for the faithful.
Yes, absolutely! ... There are many of these in the NT.
I have often asked "Christians": Are the NT writers bluffing, exaggerating, lying even?
In other words, is God playing games with us?
I agree. These promises (and so many more) are only for those who are saved through faith (the faithful).
Thankfully it is only your opinion and not what scripture declares.
Salvation is of the Lord and He gifts it to all people who are born again and indwelt by the Spirit of the Living God. They are sealed until the day they meet Christ face to face.
Sorry, but things should be much clearer.
They are in those who graduate from M to M (let the reader understand).
(The ending is a quote from the NT.)
Would you care to see the 10* NT verses which teach ...
those who PRACTICE righteousness are the righteous?
* 10 always seems to be the magic number of my proof verses for each topic!
Yes, it can be taken this way, and it is all very nice and exciting
... but the problem is my take on it, re: only the "faithful",
is upheld by multitudes of NT verses,
which demand faithfulness in a multitude of ways,
such as ENDURING until the end of life (to be saved).
Many topics say one must do such and such to be saved.
Else, one loses eternal life, gains eternal death,
gets his name blotted out, can't enter the New Jerusalem, etc.
Another aspect of ... one reaps what one sows!
So again, is God bluffing, exaggerating, lying, etc.?
Because the real dire warnings are there for all to behold.
Art thou beholding?
At the very least ...
God's shepherds are to be led by the Spirit, and in turn lead the sheep!
But, it ain't happenin'.
IMO, the sons of God are being led by the Spirit (Romans 8:14, etc.) ...
and everyone else is confused by the so-called contradictions in the NT.
ALL NT VERSES MUST BE RECONCILED TOGETHER AND AGREE!
And this is only possible, if one accepts what the English word "believe" must be meaning!
We all understand it does NOT refer to intellectual belief.
But, it goes much deeper than that.
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I agree with much here. To be saved one must be faithful, must endure to the end, must presevere. All of this is indeed Scripture which must agree. Where I disagree with you is that you are not reconciling these passages to themselves. You are reconciling these passages to your conclusion that a regenerated person who has that "right" to be called a child of God can become un-regenerated and unsaved.
Should I tomorrow list the NT Scriptures, which IMO say one can LOSE eternal life?
One cannot lose what he never had, right?
But, perhaps the most obvious one is:
EVERYONE who takes the mark of the beast will lose his eternal life!
IMO, many "Christians" worldwide will choose to take it (for whatever reason)
when they see their families starving to death, and etc.
An interesting point:
Truly faithful believers may be "pre-trib" raptured.
Then the new believers would have the choice of being a martyred or not.
Ken Peter was an unsaved RC when he had an incredible LONG vision.
He had NO understanding of any doctrine to speak of.
The first thing he saw was the rapture of the faithful dead saints!
Which doesn't mean the live ones didn't join them.
My view against pre-trib has been weakened somewhat.
IMO, the vision wasn't from Satan as a deception ...
because there were too many important spiritual Truths in the vision.
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Jesus is faithful , even while we at times are not to Him!
As the Reforrm would see this as those who are the Elect and have really been saved will be shown keeping their faith until te very end. Will have times of sinning, disobedince, but will in the end be shown as not departing from the faith. Impossible to do that and lose our life in Christ, as its God Himself who keeps and perserves us..
Now we are really going off the deepend. Visions?
Let me address one thing, why do you concluded that those who take the Mark of the beast are Christians? Where in the text do you see this reality?
One reality I see is ... you need to read and understand with more clarity.
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