Some Questions about I Thess 4:13-18

[Tom Butler]

During Bible study Wednesday night, my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased, did his usual thing--he asked questions.

The scripture passage in question is I Thessalonians 4:13-18, in which Paul speaks of the coming of the Lord, and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

So, he asked, "what's going on here? I thought those who were dead in Christ, absent from the body, were present with the Lord. So who are the dead in Christ who rise first? How are the ones in the graves different from those who are with the Lord?"

So, BBers, have at it. Please don't get into the timing (Pre-post-mid). I want to know about those dead in Christ who rise first.

 

[Zenas]

The souls of those who die in Christ go directly to be with the Lord. However, they are spirit beings without bodies. Here Paul is talking about the resurrection of the body. When Christ returns, the bodies of the dead will be resurrected first and rejoined with their immortal soul. Then those who remain will be taken up, body and soul.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I think it deals with the bodies being resurrected because he has already said in verse 14:

even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.

So the dead in Christ are with Him but will be reunited with their bodies on his return. Maybe 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 deals with this also.

 

[Grasshopper]

During Bible study Wednesday night, my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased, did his usual thing--he asked questions.

The scripture passage in question is I Thessalonians 4:13-18, in which Paul speaks of the coming of the Lord, and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

So, he asked, "what's going on here? I thought those who were dead in Christ, absent from the body, were present with the Lord. So who are the dead in Christ who rise first? How are the ones in the graves different from those who are with the Lord?"

So, BBers, have at it. Please don't get into the timing (Pre-post-mid). I want to know about those dead in Christ who rise first.

You might find this interesting: http://thereignofchrist.com/i-thess-4/

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I think most have said what is happening. The resurrection spoken of is physical. The Lord at His return brings with Him all who "sleep" in Jesus and those who are alive at His coming are caught up in the air to meet them and ever be with the Lord. The teaching is that those who remain alive at the Lord's coming shall not prevent, or preceed, those who have already died in Jesus.

We are all raised at this last day together.

 

[pastor_gerald]

No doubt this is the physical resurrection of the body.

 

[Tom Butler]

Well, that's what I think, too. But I find the descriptions curious. Those who have "fallen asleep" are different from the "dead in Christ." in this passage. I understand the need to distinguish between the spirits and the bodies. I was just struck by the descriptions.

 

[Allan]

Well, that's what I think, too. But I find the descriptions curious. Those who have "fallen asleep" are different from the "dead in Christ." in this passage. I understand the need to distinguish between the spirits and the bodies. I was just struck by the descriptions.

Both phrases are used historically to mean basically the same thing but having minor but different emphasis.
As can be seen it their usages here. The phrase 'fallen asleep' is refering to the looking ahead to the time in which they will completely be whole and awaken (ie. looking with expectation or antisipation). This is why Paul tells them not to mourn those who have fallen asleep in vs 13 and parallels it with 14 speaking of Jesus death and resurrection. Verse 15 brings the two points of life and death together by speaking of 'us' being 'alive' and them who 'sleep'.

The only passage in this which speaks of them being 'dead' is where it is specifically elaborating on the physical condition of the person changing.
This depiction goes back up to vs 14 in which Jesus 'died' and rose again (ie. the resurrection) and us who have died being risen to life in like manner.

'Dead' speaks to the condition of the mortal body and 'fallen asleep' speaks to the spiritual expectation of the believers body (ie. to soon awaken). - at least these are my thoughts.

 

[Tom Butler]

Thanks, Allan. I agree.

 

[Carico]

During Bible study Wednesday night, my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased, did his usual thing--he asked questions.

The scripture passage in question is I Thessalonians 4:13-18, in which Paul speaks of the coming of the Lord, and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

So, he asked, "what's going on here? I thought those who were dead in Christ, absent from the body, were present with the Lord. So who are the dead in Christ who rise first? How are the ones in the graves different from those who are with the Lord?"

So, BBers, have at it. Please don't get into the timing (Pre-post-mid). I want to know about those dead in Christ who rise first.

That's talking about Christians who have already died. They are called; "asleep in Christ" as opposed to unbelievers who are simply dead.

 

[Jarthur001]

During Bible study Wednesday night, my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased, did his usual thing--he asked questions.

The scripture passage in question is I Thessalonians 4:13-18, in which Paul speaks of the coming of the Lord, and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

So, he asked, "what's going on here? I thought those who were dead in Christ, absent from the body, were present with the Lord. So who are the dead in Christ who rise first? How are the ones in the graves different from those who are with the Lord?"

So, BBers, have at it. Please don't get into the timing (Pre-post-mid). I want to know about those dead in Christ who rise first.

Just to add a mix to the thread, I would like to point out this passage...

1For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven,

3inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked.

4For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life.

5Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

6Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord--

7for we walk by faith, not by sight--

8we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

9Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him.

10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Many see verses 1-3 showing a contrast of two bodies. In this view, the two body contrast is dropped in verses 5 and onward. If this be true verse 3 tells us we will never be without a body of some kind.

 

[Tom Butler]

Hmm, interesting take, James.

Now youi are forcing me to mull.

 

[kyredneck]

You might find this interesting: http://thereignofchrist.com/i-thess-4/

Thanks for that link.

 

[JMSR]

6Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord--

7for we walk by faith, not by sight--

8we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

Considering this, and verse 2, and I could be wrong, I take verse 3 to mean that we will be clothed in our heavenly home without a body until resurrection.