Lori, proximity doesn't equal accuracy.
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Some quotes for Catholics to ponder...
- Thread starter JohnDeereFan
- Start date
Lori, proximity doesn't equal accuracy.
I guess not, at least not if we're going by the grossly out of context quotes you're posting.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Not necissarily but they had a closer view. Its like an explosion those who were only 50 yards from it have a better idea of the occurance than those 20 miles away.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
We do with the basics. I don't think there is a real christian who denies any of these statements:
God created the heavens and the earth
God is a trinity
God is a first mover, or the first efficient cause. (I had to put a plug in for Greek and mideval thought)
God is immutable
This being true we believe that Jesus is God which doesn't change any of the above
Jesus is the second person of the trinity where as Holy Spirit is third person of the trinity.
That Jesus is eternally begotton of the Father. ( a referrence to Nicea) In otherwords Jesus was not made and is eternally existant with the Father and always coming from the Father. Because of God's immutability Jesus is homoosious with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
That the Holy Spirit is proceeding from the father and the son ( I had to enter the filioque to get Agnus Dei up in airs and we could watch Lori4dogs and he go at it) You can actually leave out this statement since there are differing views with regard to this aspect of the Holy Spirit. Therefore its not really a basic thing. But fun to mention just to see what he says. Kind of like putting in terms from Greek and mideival thought with terms like first mover might and how it might affect people not familiar with them.
That Jesus became man yet was still devine.
That Jesus was born of the virgin Mary
That Jesus under both Roman and Jewish decision suffered, crucified, and died
Jesus rose from the dead on the third day and later ascended into heaven.
All Christians believe he will come back to Judge the living and the dead.
For those found in him will be saved, those not are condemned already
The bible IS THE authoritative word of God.
There are no further revelations of God. I hope you understand what I mean when I say this.
I think those are the basics that every true christian believes.
In all the above I'm in 100% in agreement. Also, your right, the filioque is too contentious.
Yes, I think we can all agree that. But there are significant soteriological differences, for example, between Catholics and Protestants or between Calvinists and Arminians. I'd like to know how DHK accounts for those differences given his epistemological claims above.
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All "Christians" are not "Christians."
Islamic nations think that America is a "Christian nation." How deceived they are!
The gnostics had a very close view. They were right there (in the presence of John, so to speak). Does that make them right, and their writings accurate? How does proximity equal accuracy?
Christianity is not head knowledge.
Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ.
You can have the Bible memorized word for word, give mental assent to every word of it, and still not be a Christian. I know of a Muslim who had the entire New Testament memorized. But that didn't make him a Christian.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Not if they've fallen for the heretical Catholic view of justification, they don't.
If the Catholic believes that the New Birth is baptism.
If Jesus said: Except a man be born again you cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
If this new birth is speaking of a relationship, then no Catholic has a relationship with Christ as long as they believe that. A little bit of water doesn't give you a relationship with Jesus Christ. And that is what the RCC teaches. Look it up in your Catechism under New Birth or Born Again. One does not establish a relationship with Christ through baptism. It is impossible.
The following I know to be true because of what my Church and Romans chapters 5-8 tells me:
I am a bad person because a long time ago, the first man being used his wife as a guinea-pig in a poison-test, and then did what God told him not to do, after his wife didn’t die right away. His disobediance to God, is why I am a bad person.
And I am a good person because a long time ago, another unblemished man resisted the temptations of the Evil One, and took the wrath of God the Father upon Himself.
And I am a good person because, I have laid claim to the covenant faithfulness of the good man who died in my stead, and that faithfulness allows me to love God and serve Him forever.
And I am a bad person because I still disobey God.
And I am a good person because God is sanctifying me.
As you can see, I’m pretty messed up, but a work in progress nonetheless.
Jesus saved me from the Pit of Hell, and His faithfulness enables me to enter into Eternity with Him. I want the same for as many people as possible.
Thing is, having been freed by Jesus, I have to be more like Him. If that isn’t my goal, then it’s questionable whether Jesus freed me in the first place.
I am a bad person because a long time ago, the first man being used his wife as a guinea-pig in a poison-test, and then did what God told him not to do, after his wife didn’t die right away. His disobediance to God, is why I am a bad person.
And I am a good person because a long time ago, another unblemished man resisted the temptations of the Evil One, and took the wrath of God the Father upon Himself.
And I am a good person because, I have laid claim to the covenant faithfulness of the good man who died in my stead, and that faithfulness allows me to love God and serve Him forever.
And I am a bad person because I still disobey God.
And I am a good person because God is sanctifying me.
As you can see, I’m pretty messed up, but a work in progress nonetheless.
Jesus saved me from the Pit of Hell, and His faithfulness enables me to enter into Eternity with Him. I want the same for as many people as possible.
Thing is, having been freed by Jesus, I have to be more like Him. If that isn’t my goal, then it’s questionable whether Jesus freed me in the first place.
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No, I don't want to spend time with lengthy explanations either, suffice it to say that the RCC Catechism defines "born again" as baptism. If you also believe it is baptism you must realize that baptism cannot give you a relationship with Jesus Christ. Atoms of oxygen and hydrogen making up molecules of water do not give life--not physical life; not spiritual life.
Jesus saith unto him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me.
Jesus did not say: "No man cometh unto the Father but by baptism," which is the heretical belief of the RCC.
The New Birth establishes the relationship between a person and Christ, by that individual entering into God's family and becoming His child. He is born, by the Word and by the Spirit into the family of God.
That is the only way to become a child of God--the new birth.
Otherwise one will forever remain a child of the devil, on their way to Hell.