Someone enlighten me please - Iran

In any case, are you arguing that the proper response to radical Islamic Iran is to expand relations with them?

 

Kiffen and poncho at least answered the question I posed.

 

So, ftr, you totally discount that Iran could actually be trying to develop nuclear power and would disperse its efforts even if it had no intention of building a nuclear weapon, knowing what Israel did to Iraq about 25 years ago?

Look, as I have been saying, provide proof that:

1) Iran is trying to build and nuclear weapon

AND

2) Iran, if 1) is true, is intending to use it in a first strike.

I would think those two conditions would be required by any person looking at this situation in a balanced, Christian way.

 

No - with emphasis on "radical".

 

Huh? When asked the proper response to Iran you posted a link that proposed expanding relations with them. Are you for such a response or not? If not, again, what is the proper response to Iran?

And I'll ask AGAIN:

 

And as I have been saying, provide proof that:

1) Iran is trying to build and nuclear weapon

AND

2) Iran, if 1) is true, is intending to use it in a first strike.

I would think those two conditions would be required by any person looking at this situation in a balanced, Christian way.

If these two conditions are met, then those with war fever will find a willing listener in me.

 

No, I don't believe their 300 underground sites are to expand a nuclear power program. It is foolish and Pollyannish to believe their intentions are peaceful. China has been working with Iran for years to build Iran's capability to build nuclear weapons, for which China got in trouble with the U.S. for violation of its own agreements and was sanctioned for same, as well as its missile program. No, I'm not saying we should go bomb Iran now, but we had best be at least thinking about it and planning for how to do it, rather than waiting until the threat is even more imminent or until it is too late. I greatly respect Major B and he made some excellent points, but it is blind to ignore the destabilization such weapons pose in the hands of a radical Islamic regime. Yeah, yeah, some have argued that Israel has them, but Israel hasn't threatened to wipe Iran off the map and it is blind to ignore the fact that Israel's armament is defensive.

 

This isn't complicated, ftr. I was burned by the Bush administration over Iraq. Before I support attacking Iran the bar is much higher this time around for the Bush administration. And I hope that most Americans agree with me on that.

 

Ken, I too was surprised when your Presidential candidate Condi came out with a sudden alarmist response on Iran the other day, wondering what had suddenly changed. But the point is that there is not anything sudden--Iran's nuclear program has been moving apace for years, as evidenced by the 300 underground sites you earlier mentioned. So, how do we respond to this? Do we ignore it? Do we expand economic ties with them, as you suggested earlier by posting the link, but now seem to disavow?

 

I would not discount the possibility that the main reason for war in Iraq was to prepare for the inevetable war in Iran.

As presedent if I was receiving inteligence that Iran was a threat and war was inevatable, I may decide to take out that pesky neighbor Iraq before my hands were extreamly full with Iran.

What better oppurtuity would Sadam have for revenge then to strike us while were were in a fight with Iran. And how much better will we have it if we can come into Iran from both sides.

 

By asking for proof of the two conditions I stated.

Christians should be the last folks to finally concede that war is necessary. It appears that several on this board are instead at the front of the line calling for blood without the minimum proof that I have asked for.

 

If that kind of deception can be proven, then Bush should certainly be impeached.

 

War is necessary or not. It's just a judgement call based on the reality at hand, not something that Christians have special insight on or should be particularly reticent about.

Although I would add (editing here) that Christians should be more insightful about the reality of evil in this world.

 

Compared to non-Christians, Christians should certainly be reticent about going to war. As followers of Christ Jesus, war should the last option we seek, not the first.

 

I never said it should be the first. But it certainly shouldn't be ruled out.

G'night, sportsfans.

 

And I never said it should be ruled out.

Nighty night.

 

I do not look at that as deception. The presedent has a duty to defend this country and its people above all. I do not expect all inteligence to be made public. I am not under the impression that the public has a say in all goverment decitions. We elect people to reprisent us. If we do not like the way they reprisent then we elect somebody else.

Should they have announced D day in advance on the news so it could be open to public debate?

 

No. We were already in a Congressionally declared war. We were not deceived to go to war in World War II.

 

If we would have acted to the growing threat in Germany we could have destroyed NAZI party in its infancy and saved alot of lives on both sides. Instead we waited until the threat was strong and huge loss of life was the result.

How much more important is that lesson now. What would the consiquences have been if we would have waited until Germany had an atomic bomb. Is there any doubt that the leaders of Iran are as fanatical as the NAZI party.

If we act now and remove the Iranian goverment before they become strong and we were wrong they were all talk, at worst we have removed a goverment that is oppressive to its people.

If we are right then we may save countless number of lives.

I dont believe for a second that Iran is not going to make a nuke, and I dont need proof when I think of my kids lives I would rather act before they prove me right.

Just the opinions of this avg. Joe.

 

What truth would that be Poncho? That the Holocaust didn't occur? That the Mullahs are not interested in developing nukes? That they don't have a specific idea of how to use them against Israel and the west?... or the truth of those innane conspiracy theories that you lap up like JJ's Kool-Aid? </font>[/QUOTE]A conspiracy theory? You mean like the theory that Saddam was going to nuke us with his supersecret bomb, or the Iranians are going to bomb us with their super secret bomb? I'm not going to answer to charges I've never made Scott, I never said their was no holocaust and I never said the Mullahs aren't interested in having nukes. What are you putting in you're kool aid?

Here's the truth as spoken by:

George Herbert Walker Bush President of U.S.: 1989 ~ 1993. CFR Director, Trilateralist, CIA Director, Yale Skull and Bones Society. Addressing the General Assembly of the UN. 1st February, 1992

SOURCE

Small hint here...read the UN charter. Rights come from the state, read the Earth Charter it's global socialism and our U.S Mayors are promoting it. That's what your pledged too. Democrats and Republicans are both selling us out to global socialists and total control freaks.

Zbigniew Brzezinski Protegé of David Rockefeller, co-founder of The Trilateral Commission, and NSA to Jimmy Carter, from his 1971 book 'Between Two Ages'. (Brzezinski has been adviser to no less than five presidents)

SOURCE

Sometimes these guys do speak the truth, just not very often and it happens with little notice.

There ya have it one "conservative" president pledging us to the United Nations and one high fallutin "intelligence insider presidential advisor" wanting to use high tech electronic tracking and tracing on who? The citizen! and who would be doing the tracking and for what purpose was that again...control? The authorities you say, then which authorities Scott would those authorities also be the elite that we are pledged to?

Conspiracy theory my foot! The tooth fairy doesn't exist guys but the NWO does (admitted)and it spells the end of freedom and sovereignty for America. Go ahead support Clinton, support one world government by the elite, support Bush and support one world government by the elite.

That's what I find so funny. They got you guys either way and you don't even know it. I'm sorry, gotta