Someone explain John 8:51-52?

Frankly your insinuation that Jesus Christ, God the Son, would lie is very offensive. If He lied then we are all still dead in our sins.

This question has nothing to do with Calvinism it has to do with whether one believes that Jesus Christ was the sinless incarnate God.

By the way, did God give you a "word of knowledge" concerning these Jews, whether they were elect or non-elect?

 

webdog and WES

If you would only read Ephesians 2:1-7 you would see that Paul speaks of the elect, even himself, as in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Did you not both at one time do the same, or were you saved from your mother's womb?

 

OldRegular,
Your message is cryptic. Speak American, Early 21st century.

 

The message is in the passage from Ephesians which simply states that even the elect are lost, dead in trespasses and sins, before they are regenerated and given the faith to believe.

Various forms of expression are employed in the Scriptures, to denote the change that occurs at the new birth or regeneration:

1. It is taking away the heart of stone, and giving a heart of flesh, a new heart.

Ezekiel 36:26, KJV
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

2. It is putting the law in the heart.

Hebrews 8:10, KJV
For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

3. It is quickening or making alive.

John 6:63, KJV
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

John 5:21, KJV
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

4.It is a resurrection from the spiritual death.

John 5:25, KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John Dagg notes [Manual of Theology, pages 277ff]: “So great is the change produced, that the subject of it is called a new creature as if proceeding, like Adam, directly from the creating hand of God; and he is said to be renewed, as being restored to the image of God, in which man was originally formed”

2 Corinthians 5:17, KJV
Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Dagg further notes:

“The change is moral. The body is unchanged; and the identity of the mind is not destroyed. The individual is conscious of being the same person that he was before; but a new direction is given to the active powers of the mind, and new affections are brought into exercise. The love of God is shed abroad in the heart by the Holy Ghost. No love to God had previously existed there; for the carnal heart is enmity against God. Love is the fulfilling of the law, the principle of all holy obedience; and when love is produced in the heart, the law of God is written there. As a new principle of action, inciting to a new mode of life, it renders the man a new creature. The production of love in the heart by the Holy Spirit, is the regeneration, or the new birth; for he that loveth, is born of God.”

“The mode in which the Holy Spirit effects this change, is beyond our understanding. All God's ways are unsearchable; and we might as well attempt to explain how he created the world, as how he new-creates the soul. With reference to this subject, the Saviour said, The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.[John 3:8, KJV] We know, from the Holy Scriptures, that God employs his truth in the regeneration of the soul. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.[James 1:18, KJV] Love to God necessarily implies knowledge of God, and this knowledge it is the province of truth to impart. But knowledge is not always connected with love. The devils know, but do not love; and wicked men delight not to retain the knowledge of God, because their knowledge of him is not connected with love. The mere presentation of the truth to the mind, is not all that is needed, in producing love to God in the heart.”

God through the richness of His grace has granted to His elect spiritual life so that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in [His] kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

 

Peter says in 1 Peter 1:22-25

Seems to me that regeneration is the same as FAITH, because they come from the same sourse. Faith Cometh by hearing and Hearing by the word of God. Rebirth also springs forth from the Word of God, therefore Rebirth is FAITH in God!

 

Seems to me that regeneration is the same as FAITH, because they come from the same sourse. Faith Cometh by hearing and Hearing by the word of God. Rebirth also springs forth from the Word of God, therefore Rebirth is FAITH in God! </font>[/QUOTE]Better check your prepositions.

 

Wes says:
Rebirth also springs forth from the Word of God,

HN:
Only WHEN and IF the Holy Spirit calls for it! It is certainly NOT something that Human causes!

 

Whatever....
Better clarify what prepositions are....

 

Would it surprise you if a human picked up the bible and started reading the book of John, believed what he was reading, and placed his faith in Jesus Christ? I personally know some people who have done just that.

 

Would it surprise you if a human picked up the bible and started reading the book of John, believed what he was reading, and placed his faith in Jesus Christ? I personally know some people who have done just that. </font>[/QUOTE]It absolutely would NOT surprise me. The HOLY SPIRIT comes whenever and to whomever HE chooses.