Something I noticed about pentacostals

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ONENESS:
Very good question Lorelei the bible says you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. "Shall" is future tense.

The NIV Reads "And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". You will or shall receive it. Any future tense implied would be because they had not repented and believed. Don't read too much into one word to make your point.

Originally posted by ONENESS:
It does not say repent be baptized in the name of Jesus christ for the remission of sins so that you have the Holy Ghost. If it were so easy to have as you say then then everyone in acts 8 would not have had to wait on it.

The only reason they waited in Acts 8 is because it was the first time the Holy Spirit was dispensed upon the Samaritans. If it is as you say, why couldn't Philip do it? Why did they have to wait for Peter? (You never ever answer that)

Originally posted by ONENESS:

I dont know why, but All i can do is dance around with a silly grin on my face b/c I know that it is real.

So what in the world did God leave us His Word for? We would all have the Holy Spirit enter us and make us break the commands the Holy Spirit told someone else to write anyway? Why do you keep that book around if all you are going to do is dance around and laugh in it's face???

Originally posted by ONENESS:
I dont have to understand how my car runs when I get in it, the only thing I need to understand is how to drive it. Likewise with the holy ghost you dont have to understand everything about it to receive it all you have to do is ask for it.

Originally posted by ONENESS:
Please point me to the verse that says we are to ask for the Holy Spirit.
God is not going to give his spirit out to someone who does not want it.

Who are you to tell me I don't want it!?!? I don't desire the experience because I do have it! Who are you to tell me that I don't? I have to believe your experience, but you refuse to believe mine, based on what? Implied verses taken out of context. We are judging you by scriptures that tell us that you are not practicing the gift how it was intended. You are saying that because I don't have a gift that not everyone has that I don't have the Holy Spirit. THE BIBLE NEVER SAYS THAT!. Your pastor may say it, but it doesn't wash with the word of God.

If the Bereans took the time to question Paul and make sure what he was teaching was the truth, shouldn't you do the same? The Bereans were called Noble. Paul said get off the milk of the Word and get into the Meat. He didn't say let your pastor dig into the meat and keep feeding you like babes.

Acts 17:11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

If you say that Jesus is now the name of God, then why did Paul keep referring to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit at different times. Didn't he realize they were all the name of Jesus now?

2 Corinthians 13:14May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Why didn't he just say Jesus????

~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]

Please point me to the verse that says we are to ask for the Holy Spirit.

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

The NIV Reads "And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". You will or shall receive it. Any future tense implied would be because they had not repented and believed. Don't read too much into one word to make your point.

And the KJV reads "And you shall receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit

The only reason they waited in Acts 8 is because it was the first time the Holy Spirit was dispensed upon the Samaritans. If it is as you say, why couldn't Philip do it? Why did they have to wait for Peter? (You never ever answer that)

I dont know why phillip did not do it. But according to what you say here I could say It was the first time the HOly Ghost was dispensed upon me. That is why I did not receive that holy Ghost the first time I believed in God when I was 5 years old. The point of the matter is if they believed they should have had the HOly Ghost that moment. My point is proven with this text. Its not something that happens everytime as soon as you say I believe. Sometimes we have to wait on things.

So what in the world did God leave us His Word for? We would all have the Holy Spirit enter us and make us break the commands the Holy Spirit told someone else to write anyway? Why do you keep that book around if all you are going to do is dance around and laugh in it's face???

To read. And No he would not enter us and tell us to break the commands of what he told someone else to write. I dont dance around and laugh in its face. Lorelie, all I am saying is that we have a diffrent understanding. Look I am not saying you are wrong. I am just saying that I dont agree with you on somethings.

Who are you to tell me I don't want it!?!? I don't desire the experience because I do have it! Who are you to tell me that I don't? I have to believe your experience, but you refuse to believe mine, based on what? Implied verses taken out of context. We are judging you by scriptures that tell us that you are not practicing the gift how it was intended. You are saying that because I don't have a gift that not everyone has that I don't have the Holy Spirit. THE BIBLE NEVER SAYS THAT!. Your pastor may say it, but it doesn't wash with the word of God.

I guess you took that the wrong way, sounds like it made you a little upset. Loreleie, I know you want everything God has for you. But what it seems to me you are doing is takeing "your" understanding and putting a period on the end of it and not leaving any room for something else. Look I envy you. I think you are one of the smartest people on this board. I wish I was as smart as you. I wish I could meet you and you husband and sit down and do lunch and become friends.

The reason I asked you what I did yesterday was not so I could argue with you and get you to see how I believe, i just thought it would be a good way for you to understand what kind of person I am. I am not the type of person that is going to look down on anyone b/c they dont belive the way I do. I am human just like anyone else. And just b/c I speak in tongues does not make me anybetter than anyone on this board. I know thats the impression that alot of you have. But I am pretty normal for the most part. LOL. I like to cut up and have a good time. I am probably more sarcastic than I am serious half the time. I just wish you guys would not for an opinion on someone just b/c of their beliefs.

And just a small request do you guys mind praying for me and my fiance. Her mom is really tripping right now on somethings. But anyway Just want to say that I love you guys, and you guys are like my family in sence. I get to come to work and still have someone to argue with. LOL.

You all take care

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
Why do folks always nit-pick about spelling, etc? [sigh]... Yes, I've also heard there are some Pentecostals that call themselves "classics" & they believe in the tri-unity of God. And, you're right, all Onenesses aren't Pentecostals; many a well-known gospel singer are Oneness, as is some popular charismatic preachers & that famous'Weigh-Down'(wt.loss) lady. It's infectious!

What I said was that not all Pentecostals were in Pentecostal churches.

And the Pentecostals who believe that the evidence of speaking in tongues is neccesary for salvation are like the Baptists who think you have to be in their denomination to attain salvation...

And I pointed out the spelling error because I did not realize the thread was more than one page. Even Presbyterians, it seems, make mistakes.

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
Oneness,

First you assume that because you feel you are praising God then that is pleasing to Him. If the Spirit that is within you is making you break the commands that Paul wrote, then that is not pleasing to God.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit was come to teach us about Jesus, not about Himself. The Holy Spirit should be helping us to edify the body of believers, not ourselves. When you focus so much on the wonderful feeling you have, you aren't focusing on what we are instructed to do. Die to yourself, pick up your cross, not feel good and do nothing more productive to edify the body and reach others for Christ. The power of the Holy Spirit should do just that, it should make us bold witnesses, not bold tongue speakers locked up within a church that if anyone did come in they would say you were insane.

You can't say it is not of Satan because you feel that you are closer to God. We are warned that Satan does what?

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />2 Corinthians 11:4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

See above, those false apostles were masquerading as angels of light. They were pretending to be apostles. They were using the name of Christ, they were saying things about God. Did that make it right? NO Paul even said they would receive a different spirit and they didn't care! Why do you think Paul warned them about this?

Yes, this was that Corinthian church again, the one that was unruly when it came to practicing thier gift of tongues, just as your church is doing today.

We are told to test the Spirits for a reason.

1 John 4:1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world

Now, how do you know it is from God? You must test them! Testing the spirit with the scriptures will show you if it is of God or not. Does the spirit within you compel you to break the commands of the Lord?? Then it is not of God! No excuses!!!

The Spirit also convinces you to believe a gospel that was not preached. You follow after the Oneness theology and the false plan of salvation that makes you trust in the water and holiness more then the blood of Christ. That is not what the Bible says frees us from our sins.

Originally posted by ONENESS:
take the man on the cross that you asked about. here you have a very unique situation. The dispensation of Grace was not in effect until Jesus Died. This man on the cross was still under the old testament law. B/c Jesus had not yet died.

Read what you just said! The dispensation did not happen until the day of Pentecost!! Amen! I am glad that you finally see why those in Acts believed first and then got the Spirit. Not because that was the plan but because they had to wait until Jesus died, rose again and ascended into heaven. He told them to wait in Acts and upon that day he dispensed his Spirit among the Jews. In chapter 8 he dispensed it upon the Samaritans and in Chapter 10 He dispensed it upon the Gentiles. Once the Spirit had been dispensed, it no longer needed to wait, Grace is now effective!!!

Originally posted by ONENESS:

Take the men on the battle field for example, If they are really gonig to want to come to repentance before they die, then either God will make away or he want. And when they die, will they go to heaven? Im not really sure. I can never say, but what I can say is that we will be held accountable for what we know. And if you see that you should do something and do not then you will be held accountable for that.

You can say! Either the blood is applied or it is not. You say that the blood isn't applied until water baptism, but in Acts 10 the people received the Spirit before the Water. You can't have the Spirit without the regeneration. How did they get it? God makes special cases with special people? I think not. God's plan doesn't change for anyone. That is why the blood is applied the moment you believe. There are no works to get it there.

1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing--if it really was for nothing? 5Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard

~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]Lorelie, here is what I believe. I believe that it takes believing, Repentance and water baptism and the HOly GHost to get the blood applied.

I believe in living holy (although I am not at times, but believe that if you dont live holy than you will not go to heaven.

I belive you have to pray, fast and read your bible to maintain a close relationship with God.

I belive that one should praise God any way he/she feels fit to do so. Wether it seems far out there or not. As long has you are sincere and are doing it for the lord of lords and king of kings and as long as it comes from the heart.

I belive that when someone receives the Holy Ghost they will speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterence. Granny, Weather they can
talk or not. There is a deaf man that comes to our church who has no vocle chords and cannot speak spoke in tongues when he received the Holy Ghost.

I believe that you must repent your sins and live a Godly Life.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit was come to teach us about Jesus, not about Himself. The Holy Spirit should be helping us to edify the body of believers, not ourselves. When you focus so much on the wonderful feeling you have, you aren't focusing on what we are instructed to do. Die to yourself, pick up your cross, not feel good and do nothing more productive to edify the body and reach others for Christ. The power of the Holy Spirit should do just that, it should make us bold witnesses, not bold tongue speakers locked up within a church that if anyone did come in they would say you were insane.

.

Lorelie I could tell you how every saterday how we have outreach, and every saterday night we have prayer meeting, and every saterday morning we have outreach, and every tuesday night we have bible study, every friday night we have youth group, every day we try to go out and teach a bible study. We do so much more than confine ourselves to the walls of the church. We do share to everyone that we come in contact with how good Jesus is. We brag and lift him up, b/c its not about us its all about him and what he has done for us. I could tell you so much but I would have to spend the rest of my life doing so. The conversation at hand is on salvation in a nutshell. There is so much to the UPC than what you see and hear. YOu cant understand it until you are a part of it. You are looking at it from the outside in.

Test the spirts to see if they be among you. Yes Satan will apear to be an angel of Light but he is not. How do we know? b/c we have tested him. We know that no everyone that will come saying they have come in the Name of Jesus have not. But what I am saying is that you will still know the tree by its fruit.

 

[ONENESS]

You can say! Either the blood is applied or it is not. You say that the blood isn't applied until water baptism, but in Acts 10 the people received the Spirit before the Water. You can't have the Spirit without the regeneration. How did they get it? God makes special cases with special people? I think not. God's plan doesn't change for anyone. That is why the blood is applied the moment you believe. There are no works to get it there.

Believing is a work that we do. Even the deviles belive and tremble. So do they have the Holy GHost? Yes they did get the Holy Ghost before being baptized, but so what, what does the next verse say? Does it say they gave them the option to be baptized? No it was a commandment. Why did he command it? B/c he wanted to make up a commandment? No B/c he knew that those that believe and are baptized should be saved. Peter knew that they had to be born of the Water and The Spirit.

The only thing that is not a work for us is Christ Dyeing and nothing more. If Christ died according to what you say than that is enough for us. It is not enough just to belive. But we also have to live a life pleasing and acceptable to Jesus Christ. Its Called being obidient. If you want I will dig out all the sripture that I have to, But I have a feeling you know what I am talking about Lorelie.

God Bless

 

[Don]

But we also have to live a life pleasing and acceptable to Jesus Christ. Its Called being obidient.

Why? Because we have to be obedient, or because we want to be obedient?

If you have to, then you're a Pharisee. If you want to, then you're saved.

 

[Don]

The point of the matter is if they believed they should have had the HOly Ghost that moment. My point is proven with this text.

No, it's not. The only point that is proven, because of the fact that later the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles the moment they heard the Word and believed, is that the Holy Spirit will fall on you when the Holy Spirit is good and ready....

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Don:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The point of the matter is if they believed they should have had the HOly Ghost that moment. My point is proven with this text.

No, it's not. The only point that is proven, because of the fact that later the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles the moment they heard the Word and believed, is that the Holy Spirit will fall on you when the Holy Spirit is good and ready....</font>[/QUOTE]Have you been baptized in the Name of Jesus yet? If not why are you disobeying what Peter Commanded? Don I really like you but for you to say that my pastor did not answer your question and to say that we are going directly against what the paul commands, Then I ask again, why are you going against what scripture and Peter commands in Acts 10. I am a Gentile and so are you and so were they. So is God going to make acceptions for someone else just b/c they feel or think a certain way? So again I ask why does your Pastor Teach anything diffrent than what Peter preached the Gentiles?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by ONENESS:

How do I know that what I have is not demonic? Well lets see

25. And Jesus knew * their thoughts, and said * unto them, Every kingdom divided * against itself is brought to desolation * ; and every city or house divided * against itself shall * not stand * :

26. And if Satan cast out * Satan, he is divided * against himself; how shall * then his kingdom stand * ?

33. Either make * the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make * the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known * by his fruit.

Satan would never do anything that would make us closer to God. Satan cant give peace. Satan cant make you love God more and even if he could he would not.

When you have tears running down your face and you are speaking in tongues their is something there that surpasses anything you could imagine. And when God filled me with his spirit for the first time I remember How everything seemed so New. I had never felt so close to God in my life. And again satan will not do anything to make you closer to the one he hates[/QUOTE]

ONENESS,
Of the verses you quoted, none of them seem to answer the question that I posed to you. Your right, Satan does not divide his kingdom. That is why it has been well documented that Mormons, Hindus, and even the Voo-doo worshipers of Haiti have spoken in tongues. It has also been documented that a man in Charismatic church in B.C. spoke in tongues (in perfect Greek), saying over and over, "I l love the devil." You are right, Satan does not divide his kingdom. He is wiser than that.

Satan is a very good counterfeiter. He likes to play on peoples emotions. When you feel close to God, you are trusting an emotion. We are never supposed to trust are emotions. Trust the Word of God. Trust your faith and confidence in the Word of God, not your emotions. If I lived by my emotions I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning and go to work.

The very fact that Satan was counterfeiting these tongues is evidenced by Paul's strong rebuke to the Corinthians in 1Cor.12:3
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

They, through their demonic tongues were calling Jesus Christ accursed. I have no evidence that you are not doing the same thing. Neither do you. The verses that you posted do not convince me otherwise. How do you know that you are not giving glory to Satan, and not to God. You do not know what you are saying!!
DHK

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by ONENESS:
Lorelie, here is what I believe. I believe that it takes believing, Repentance and water baptism and the HOly GHost to get the blood applied.

In believing this you deny this:

Romans 10:9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

And this:

Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will saved.

You can't explain this:

Acts 10:44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
47Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have

Originally posted by ONENESS:

I believe in living holy (although I am not at times, but believe that if you dont live holy than you will not go to heaven.

In believing this you deny this:

Romans 3:10There is no one righteous, not even one

Ephesians 2:8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast

For it isn't by living holy we go to heaven, we live holy because we are going to heaven.

Ephesians 2:1010For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Originally posted by ONENESS:

I belive you have to pray, fast and read your bible to maintain a close relationship with God.

You should do this to remain close to God, but the Bible teaches that:

Hebrews 13:5Never will I leave you;
never will I forsake you.

We are sealed until the day we were redeemed.

Ephesians 4:And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

We are now His children

Galatians 4:7So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.

Originally posted by ONENESS:
I belive that one should praise God any way he/she feels fit to do so. Wether it seems far out there or not. As long has you are sincere and are doing it for the lord of lords and king of kings and as long as it comes from the heart.

The bible never teaches this. In believing this you ignore the commands of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14:13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says.
26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
34As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.

Originally posted by ONENESS:
I belive that when someone receives the Holy Ghost they will speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterence.

In believing this you deny this:

1 Corinthians 12:7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good
10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[1] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[2] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

You ignore that the apostles actually did this:

5Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs--we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"

Originally posted by ONENESS:
I believe that you must repent your sins and live a Godly Life.

In believing this you deny this:

22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[9] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus

And don't understand this:

Romans 3:31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

You seem to believe a lot of things, but they don't agree with what the Bible teaches.

~Lorelei

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Satan sure has those suicide-folks "convinced" that what they are doing in the 'name of allah' (who they think is God) is right. The devil is a deceiver & a mocker, giving out feelings that are false just so you can feel closer to a god who is not the God of the Bible. "Inventions of the flesh are created to stir up the flesh". It's all about EMOTIONALISM, pure & simple.

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ONENESS:
Lorelie, here is what I believe. I believe that it takes believing, Repentance and water baptism and the HOly GHost to get the blood applied.

In believing this you deny this:

Romans 10:9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

And this:

Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will saved.

You can't explain this:

Acts 10:44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
47Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have

Originally posted by ONENESS:

I believe in living holy (although I am not at times, but believe that if you dont live holy than you will not go to heaven.

In believing this you deny this:

Romans 3:10There is no one righteous, not even one

Ephesians 2:8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast

For it isn't by living holy we go to heaven, we live holy because we are going to heaven.

Ephesians 2:1010For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Originally posted by ONENESS:

I belive you have to pray, fast and read your bible to maintain a close relationship with God.

You should do this to remain close to God, but the Bible teaches that:

Hebrews 13:5Never will I leave you;
never will I forsake you.

We are sealed until the day we were redeemed.

Ephesians 4:And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

We are now His children

Galatians 4:7So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.

Originally posted by ONENESS:
I belive that one should praise God any way he/she feels fit to do so. Wether it seems far out there or not. As long has you are sincere and are doing it for the lord of lords and king of kings and as long as it comes from the heart.

The bible never teaches this. In believing this you ignore the commands of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14:13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says.
26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
34As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.

Originally posted by ONENESS:
I belive that when someone receives the Holy Ghost they will speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterence.

In believing this you deny this:

1 Corinthians 12:7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good
10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[1] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[2] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

You ignore that the apostles actually did this:

5Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs--we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"

Originally posted by ONENESS:
I believe that you must repent your sins and live a Godly Life.

In believing this you deny this:

22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[9] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus

And don't understand this:

Romans 3:31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

You seem to believe a lot of things, but they don't agree with what the Bible teaches.

~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by ONENESS:
When you have tears running down your face and you are speaking in tongues their is something there that surpasses anything you could imagine. And when God filled me with his spirit for the first time I remember How everything seemed so New. I had never felt so close to God in my life. And again satan will not do anything to make you closer to the one he hates

I respect personal testimonies like that!!

I just found out that Phillips, Craig and Dean are Oneness Pentecostal Ministers!

"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you." -- Jesus

Simple? Yes! Easy? No!!

Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit -- just as you were called to one hope when you were called -- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. -- Eph 4:3-6

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ONENESS:
Lorelie, here is what I believe. I believe that it takes believing, Repentance and water baptism and the HOly GHost to get the blood applied.

In believing this you deny this:

Romans 10:9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

And this:

Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will saved.

You can't explain this:

Acts 10:44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
47Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have

Originally posted by ONENESS:

I believe in living holy (although I am not at times, but believe that if you dont live holy than you will not go to heaven.

In believing this you deny this:

Romans 3:10There is no one righteous, not even one

Ephesians 2:8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast

For it isn't by living holy we go to heaven, we live holy because we are going to heaven.

Ephesians 2:1010For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Originally posted by ONENESS:

I belive you have to pray, fast and read your bible to maintain a close relationship with God.

You should do this to remain close to God, but the Bible teaches that:

Hebrews 13:5Never will I leave you;
never will I forsake you.

We are sealed until the day we were redeemed.

Ephesians 4:And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

We are now His children

Galatians 4:7So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.

Originally posted by ONENESS:
I belive that one should praise God any way he/she feels fit to do so. Wether it seems far out there or not. As long has you are sincere and are doing it for the lord of lords and king of kings and as long as it comes from the heart.

The bible never teaches this. In believing this you ignore the commands of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14:13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says.
26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
34As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.

Originally posted by ONENESS:
I belive that when someone receives the Holy Ghost they will speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterence.

In believing this you deny this:

1 Corinthians 12:7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good
10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[1] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[2] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

You ignore that the apostles actually did this:

5Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs--we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"

Originally posted by ONENESS:
I believe that you must repent your sins and live a Godly Life.

In believing this you deny this:

22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[9] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus

And don't understand this:

Romans 3:31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

You seem to believe a lot of things, but they don't agree with what the Bible teaches.

~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]Lorelei alot of those scriptures look good all by themselves on a Billboard for someone to look at going down the interstate.

But if you are going to sit there and totally ignore the fact that the bible says

Hebrews 12:14-17

14 FOLLOW PEACE WITH ALL MEN AND HOLINESS, WITHOUT WHICH NO MAN SHALL SEE THE LORD:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

So what you say is that all one has to believe in Jesus and for one hour make him Lord of their lives and in return can have the eternal reward of heaven.

Any body can Live for God for a year, but if one confesses God as Lord, that is not a once in a lifetime "your done thats it you are home free" all you have to do. If one confess that Jesus is Lord of their life They strive to do everything that God wants them to do. It is not a pick and choose thing, ANd say God If you do this I will do that. Who is the God People?

Im telling you if you lived for God a year ago and you have fallen in to fornication, Lust, Murding, lyeing, coveting, witchcraft, and things that are like these, then there is a pretty clear warning that they are not going to inherit the kingdom of God. (Romans, Gal, Eph, Hebrews,....)

 

[susanpet]

Well, Oneness, I have to agree with you on that. No sin will enter in to heaven.

Susan

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Thank you, Katie! I didn't know that. (I had read several different articles that she was Oneness, which she denied)& many churches-including some Baptists, have cancelled her program. Also, the thing I've noticed is that this oneness-doctrine has a lot more in common with JW's, Church of Christ, Mormons, Catholics, to name a few, than they realize.

*Lorelei, if you will write a book, I will be the first to buy! God Bless.

 

[Don]

Have you been baptized in the Name of Jesus yet?

I believe I've answered that question before: Yes.

Don I really like you but for you to say that my pastor did not answer your question and to say that we are going directly against what the paul commands,

Please tell me how you can say your pastor answered my question when his answer specifically contradicts scripture (i.e., he admitted that he allows his congregation to ALL speak in tongues, even though scripture specifically says let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret; but if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.)

What he answered, Brian and MEE, is that he basically doesn't care what the scripture says on the subject, and I believe THAT is the point that YOU've been missing all along!

If you agree with this pastor that you should not worry about these instructions, then you are ultimately stating that the bible is NOT God-breathed, and that its words are of no effect.

Don't you DARE talk to us about obedience again!!!!!

Then I ask again, why are you going against what scripture and Peter commands in Acts 10. I am a Gentile and so are you and so were they. So is God going to make acceptions for someone else just b/c they feel or think a certain way? So again I ask why does your Pastor Teach anything diffrent than what Peter preached the Gentiles?

What in the world are you talking about?!?

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by katie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> all Onenesses aren't Pentecostals; many a well-known gospel singer are Oneness, as is some popular charismatic preachers & that famous'Weigh-Down'(wt.loss) lady. It's infectious

She isn't oneness or pentecostal, shes ex-church of Christ, now running her own cultic church. Her beliefs are much closer to JW's.</font>[/QUOTE]Oh, yeah, I know a fair amount about her.

That's true that she's not oneness. Oneness folks are Modalists but she doesn't believe Jesus is God...both groups are non-Trinitarian but in different ways. You are right that her beliefs have quite a bit in common with the JWs.

I was quoted in this article about her...

Christianity Today: Gwen in the Balance

And I was named in this one:
Wall Street Journal Article About Weigh Down

But I backed off the whole thing shortly after that because, well, it didn't seem right for someone with a website called "Love Is The Most Excellent Way" to be going around angry enough that secular reporters were picking up on it...

That was my conviction anyway, fwiw...

[ May 21, 2002, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: AITB ]

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by Don:

Don I really like you but for you to say that my pastor did not answer your question and to say that we are going directly against what the paul commands,

Please tell me how you can say your pastor answered my question when his answer specifically contradicts scripture (i.e., he admitted that he allows his congregation to ALL speak in tongues, even though scripture specifically says let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret; but if there be no interpreter,
let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.)

What he answered, Brian and MEE, is that he basically doesn't care what the scripture says on the subject, and I believe THAT is the point that YOU've been missing all along!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Don, Brian's Pastor said that it was OK for you to post what he said, as long as you didn't take it out of context. YOU have done exactly that!!

MEE

 

[Don]

Wrong, child.

You've accused me of taking things out of context before; you didn't prove it then, and you didn't offer one shred of evidence to support your accusation now.

Here's what scripture says:

1 Cor 14:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

Now, let's look at what Brian's pastor wrote:

Yes there are times ( not all times) that we at Landmark enjoy the total engulfing presence of the Holy Ghost, and as a result the whole congregation will respond with tongues or a shout or weeping or any number of things that please the Lord....

many times when the spirit is flowing through a spirit filled congregation people will worship and tongues will be spoken, but when this happens it is in total harmony with the word.

Now, how am I taking his words--"this is in total harmony with the gospel"--out of context?

The gospel--God's inspired word, and therefore HIS Word, HIS instructions, HIS commandments--says if anyone speaks in an unknown tongue, let it be by two or at the most three. That archaic language we know as King James english says "and that by course"; this means "one at a time." The passage also says "and let one interpret...but if there be no interpreter, let him (the one speaking in tongues) keep silent."

By his own words, this pastor allows violation of these instructions, which means he doesn't care what scripture says.

So MEE, you can childishly say I'm taking things out of context all you want--but the burden of proving it is on you....

[ May 22, 2002, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

[donnA]

AITB

I'm going to take a look at at those. I was in Wd last year, and when I found out about it I quit, after much prayer, and not giving up I convinced my pastor to stip the others from meeting in the church. I have collected a lot of info on WD/Gwen and continue to recieve their newsletters for my collection.