Something I noticed about pentacostals

[donnA]

DHK,
I actually bought the book from the limk you gave, and loved it. He has done a lot of research. I even passed it on to my Sunday sc. teacher. Thats was the first MacArthut book I'd read, I would probably read more of his stiff.
Do you remeber where you gave a lonk to go to to find that book, I didn't save it and wanted to go back and see what else they have affordable.

 

[susanpet]

Originally posted by blackbird:
I wouldn't trust the best 15 minutes of my life to earn my salvation. Noone and nothing beside Jesus!

AMEN and AMEN!!!!

 

[MEE]

DHK writes:
I want you to understand MEE, that no man speaking by the Holy Spirit, can call Jesus Christ accursed. What does the verse mean? I gave you the meaning and gave you a link where you could get much more information on the same subject. You deny that the verse means that they were speaking in tongues by another spirit, but you fail to say what it does mean.

DHK, you are correct! No man speaking by the Holy Spirit, can call Jesus Christ accursed or would even come close to say such. Also, when one has the real Spirit of God he knows who the
Lord God of heaven is...and He is not one of
three persons in the Godhead. Paul didn't say anything about the church at Corinth speaking in tongues and saying it was of the devil!

You and MacArthur are relying on your 'own' interpretation of 1Cor. 12:3.

Proverbs 30:5-6
5) Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6) Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

As far as the link...John MacArthur is so far out in left field that he may never find his way home.

MEE

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by katie:
DHK,
Do you remeber where you gave a lonk to go to to find that book, I didn't save it and wanted to go back and see what else they have affordable.

Much of his writings are on-line and down-loadable at: http://www.biblebb.com/mac.htm

Glad to be of help.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by MEE:

DHK, you are correct! No man speaking by the Holy Spirit, can call Jesus Christ accursed or would even come close to say such. Also, when one has the real Spirit of God he knows who the
Lord God of heaven is...and He is not one of
three persons in the Godhead. Paul didn't say anything about the church at Corinth speaking in tongues and saying it was of the devil!

Good. Now we are making some progress. The question is how can you guarantee that when you are speaking in a "language" you are speaking through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is always in control, never out of control. Tongues-speakers who don't know what they are speaking are out of control. They have experiences similar to the Mormons, Hindu sects, and Voo-doo worshipers, all of whom speak in tongues, all of whom do not necessarily know what they are saying when they are speaking in tongues. Your speaking in tongues experience is ecstatic, out of control, not a real language, and more characteristic of the language of demons that Paul was rebuking in 1Cor.12:3. Read the context, verses one and two.

12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

First, a warning in verse one: Don't be ignorant! Don't deliberately refuse the knowledge that I am about to tell you. People who are proud usually do this.

Second, consider your background and what you used to be doing. They were gentiles, came out of a sinful lifestyle, even worshipped other gods. Don't open up your minds to that kind of lifestyle again. You may think your spiritual with your so-called carnal gifts, but your not. In reality, some of you have been calling Jesus accursed. That's not the Holy Spirit doing that, that is a demonic spirit.
DHK

 

[Clint Kritzer]

As is the custom in this forum, this topic will be closed at page 10.

Clint Kritzer
Moderator

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by DHK:

Originally posted by MEE:
[qb]
DHK, you are correct! No man speaking by the Holy Spirit, can call Jesus Christ accursed or would even come close to say such. Also, when one has the real Spirit of God he knows who the
Lord God of heaven is...and He is not one of
three persons in the Godhead. Paul didn't say anything about the church at Corinth speaking in tongues and saying it was of the devil!

Good. Now we are making some
progress.
DHK

PROGRESS??? You may think you are, but think again DHK, you were wrong in the beginning and you and your MacArthur research are still wrong. Try asking God for the real meaning of
1 Cor. 12:3 and if you listen real close, you will be surprised.

MEE

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by MEE:

Try asking God for the real meaning of
1 Cor. 12:3 and if you listen real close, you will be surprised.

I have given you the meaning, the context, supporting verses, and you have given me nothing but a denial. Please explain the "surprise" yourself. I want to hear your exposition on this passage of Scripture. What does it mean, if it does not mean what I have already explained to you? Do you have any demonstrable proof that you are speaking in tongues by the Holy Spirit, and not another spirit? How do you know, if you do not know what you are saying? Satan is a great counterfeiter.
DHK

 

[donnA]

Much of his writings are on-line and down-loadable at: http://www.biblebb.com/mac.htm

Thank you!

 

[SolaScriptura]

(1 Cor 14:32) And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by DHK:

I have given you the meaning, the context, supporting verses, and you have given me nothing but a denial. Please explain the "surprise" yourself. I want to hear your exposition on this passage of Scripture. What does it mean, if it does not mean what I have already explained to you? Do you have any demonstrable proof that you are speaking in tongues by the Holy Spirit, and not another spirit? How do you know, if you do not know what you are saying? Satan is a great counterfeiter.
DHK[/QB]

You have given me noting, but research from one who knows nothing about the Spirit of God.

Let me try this one more time! The "Spirit" that dwells in me comes from heaven. Acts 2:2) And suddenly there came a sound from "heaven" as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

The Holy Ghost (The Promise) was poured out and evidences by speaking in other tonguew. It is for everyone!

Acts 2:39) For the promise is unto you and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

I know that the Lord is still calling and the promise is still the same. Also, when one receives the promise or the Spirit of God, they will speak in tongues as a witness that they have received the Spirt of God.

As far as you believing it is of the devil....well that is your belief.

Luke 11:13) If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

His Spirit is what I asked of Him and that is exactly what I recieved, just like they received on the Day of Pentecost and through the rest of the Bible.

You can call it anything that you like, but it won't change the true Spirit into something evil.

BTW, one "is not" out of control when worshipping the Lord God of heaven. You may have been reading too many books other than the Bible.
If you can't understand what I'm saying, try praying about it! Not mad at anyone, just get tired of everyone trying to put down what I know to be the truth.

You all have a good day!
Mee

 

[donnA]

The Holy Ghost (The Promise) was poured out and evidences by speaking in other tonguew. It is for everyone!

Then why didn't everyone in the bible do it? And why don't all believers today do it. If it is still for today then God is cheatng some people. And playing favorites, which scripture says He doesn't. Either God is in control or He isn't. And if He is then He gives the gifts, it is not dependant on us in anyway, if it were then He would not be in control. And why would God send out millions of powerless christian and expect hem to serve Him without the power to do so( all our power to live the christian life, and serve God coms from the Holy Spirit).
How easy it must be to judge others spiritual life as not as good as your own, based on tongues alone. Is spiritual pride and arrogance a gift of the Spirit also?
How foolish to use the book of Acts, a history book, to form theology out of. It tells onkly the beginings of the church, and does not give commands to the church.

 

[GrannyGumbo]

MEE, if one "is not" out of control when they're worshipping the Lord God of heaven in these kind of services, then please explain why one would walk the backs of pews, or why the men on one side & the women on the other side of the sanctuary will run around the building(inside & out), hooping & hollering, & why would little children want to get up during the exhortations & try to dance around in the aisles(only to be told by the bishop to sit down), & why would the bishop call someone up front to make a public mockery of him/her, & why would the music be so loud the cops actually have to come out to stop it, & why wouldn't these 'feelings' continue all day(the Holy Spirit don't move then?)---well, ya get the idea of what I'm saying.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by MEE:

You have given me noting, but research from one who knows nothing about the Spirit of God.

In your justification of your own false practices you have only demeaned the research of others. I quoted MacArthur once, and you seem to think all that I say is predicated on what he wrote. If you like I will quote a dozen others who will say basically the same thing. The reason they agree is they study the Scriptures, believe the Scriptures, and rely on the Word and not their experiences.

Nowhere in the Bible is the Believer ever commanded to speak in tongues.
Nowhere in the Bible is the Believer ever commanded to seek for the gift of tongues.
Nowhere in the Bible is the Believer ever given instructions on how to speak in tongues.

The only church that Paul wrote to where tongues were mentioned was Corinth, and that was the most carnal of all the churches. Some of them had turned apostate. Some were living in sin, committing fornication. Some had been worshipping demons.
Paul gives clear evidence that the gift of tonges has ceased in 1Cor.13:8-13, something you refuse to accept.
You have given no evidence that the tongue you speak with is not of Holy Ghost, seeing you do not have an interpreter (which is unbiblical), and you do not understand what you are saying. Is it not entirely possible that you are worshipping the devil in another language without even knowing it? Others have been so deceived. What makes you think that you are above deception?
DHK

 

[donnA]

Grannygumbo, I've been in several charismatic worship services and found that each one(two different churches, 50 miles apart) were out of control. Worship service was not done in a biblical style, "In order" as the bible says. It was alot partying, but no worship.

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by katie:
Grannygumbo, I've been in several charismatic worship services and found that each one(two different churches, 50 miles apart) were out of control. Worship service was not done in a biblical style, "In order" as the bible says. It was alot partying, but no worship.

The Pharisees probably thought much the about the party Matthew held for Jesus.

Matt 8:10 While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and `sinners'?"

Or, was that ok, if it was out of control because it wasn't a 'worship service' per se?

The church might be a different institution altogether if there was a bit more 'out of control' joy about it.

I think it's a shame if the joy of the LORD must always be carefully organized, structured and planned ahead...

Or maybe not always. Just in worship services...

 

[donnA]

The Pharisees probably thought much the about the party Matthew held for Jesus.

Are you saying it's ok not to follow scripture?

Eating a meal is not the same as being in a church worship service.

It's the bible that says 'let all things be done in order', not me. Do you disagree with the bible? No where in scripture does it tell about a worship service like the charismatic churches. As a matter of fact it tells us about a worship service so subdued that a guy fell asleep and fell out the window and killed himself. I guess Paul didn't shout and stomp around when he preached, nor were the other worshippers loud and disruptive.
Worship is not a lot of noise, and running around, worship comes from the heart, not a desire to party.

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by katie:

Worship is not a lot of noise, and running around

I don't think that's necessarily true of children - and Jesus said "Anyone who doesn't change and become like a child will not enter the kingdom of heaven"

 

[donnA]

I don't think that's necessarily true of children - and Jesus said "Anyone who doesn't change and become like a child will not enter the kingdom of heaven"

Jesus did not mean in childish behavior, but child like faith, accepting Him without reservation. The way you are using it applying it to worship is taking the verse out of context. If you have to twist scripture to back up your poin, then you must have no real scripture to back it up.