"Son of God" or "A son of the gods"? Daniel 3:25

[Jordan Kurecki]

I believe that Jesus appeared to resemble a young man in His appearance in the furnace, but He also appeared to obviously be much more than just another young man. Nebuchadnezzar recognized the men he'd had cast into the furnace & knew the 4th was not one of them.

And he assumed the "gods" had been around for awhile, & thus would not appear to be young men, so Neb assumed Jesus was their son.

Still, no one has given me any reason to believe that, at that time, Nebuchadnezzar knew the 4th person in his furnace was THE Son of THE God.

And what makes you think that after the Hebrew children claimed that Jehovah the one true God would deliver them, that he would think a son of one of the pagan gods would be in the furnace delivering them?

Your anti KJV passions are blinding you from seeing the truth.

 

[HankD]

And what makes you think that after the Hebrew children claimed that Jehovah the one true God would deliver them, that he would think a son of one of the pagan gods would be in the furnace delivering them?

Your anti KJV passions are blinding you from seeing the truth.

Because of the connect structure of "Son of God' L-bar-Elohim it strongly suggests that - Elohim - in this case indicates the true Triune God

 

[Baptist4life]

roby and the KJV is like the democrats and Trump!

 

[rsr]

Because of the connect structure of "Son of God' L-bar-Elohim it strongly suggests that - Elohim - in this case indicates the true Triune God

Is there another instance in the Aramaic portions of Daniel or Ezra in which l’var-Elahin is used to designate Yahweh?

 

[HankD]

Is there another instance in the Aramaic portions of Daniel or Ezra in which l’var-Elahin is used to designate Yahweh?

That I don't know but I don't think so.

 

[rlvaughn]

Is there another instance in the Aramaic portions of Daniel or Ezra in which l’var-Elahin is used to designate Yahweh?

That I don't know but I don't think so.

And would it matter, if "the Most High God" of the Jews is not contextually relevant in the other places?

The Septuagint rendering is interesting, and there are at least two translations online that vary. The Greek OT (Septuagint/LXX) UTF8 version renders it αγγελου θεου (angel of God) and the Elpenor's Bilingual (Greek / English) Old Testament renders it υἱῷ θεοῦ (son of God). Both, nevertheless, chose the singular over the plural.

 

[Deacon]

Is there another instance in the Aramaic portions of Daniel or Ezra in which l’var-Elahin is used to designate Yahweh?

That particular Aramaic phrase is used only once.
That particular Aramaic word used for God/gods is used 9 times.

The KJV only translates it as "God" in Daniel 3:25.

Daniel 2:11
And it is a rare thing that the king requireth, and there is none other that can shew it before the king, except the gods, whose dwelling is not with flesh. (AV1873)

Daniel 2:47
The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret. (AV1873)

Daniel 3:25
He exclaimed, “Look! I see four men, not tied, walking around in the fire unharmed; and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.”, (CSB)

He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God. (AV1873)

Daniel 4:8
But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and before him I told the dream, saying, (AV1873)

Daniel 4:9
O Belteshazzar, master of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in thee, and no secret troubleth thee, tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and the interpretation thereof. (AV1873)

Daniel 4:18
This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou art able; for the spirit of the holy gods is in thee. (AV1873)

Daniel 5:11
There is a man in thy kingdom, in whom is the spirit of the holy gods; and in the days of thy father light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of the gods, was found in him; whom the king Nebuchadnezzar thy father, the king, I say, thy father, made master of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers; (AV1873)

Daniel 5:14
I have even heard of thee, that the spirit of the gods is in thee, and that light and understanding and excellent wisdom is found in thee. (AV1873)

Rob

 

[rsr]

Thanks.

 

[robycop3]

And what makes you think that after the Hebrew children claimed that Jehovah the one true God would deliver them, that he would think a son of one of the pagan gods would be in the furnace delivering them?

Your anti KJV passions are blinding you from seeing the truth.

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT...

How many times must it be repeated that Nebuchadnezzar couldn't possibly have known who the actual Son of the real God is? The 3 Jews didn't say "The Son of our God will deliver us."

And immediately after, Neb called Him an angel. (Pagans had their angels, too.) We must remember that Neb was still in a state of astonishment, as was everyone else present, except the 3 Jews.

And my "passions" aren't against the KJV; they're against the false KJVO MYTH.

 

[Baptist4life]

="robycop3, post: 2429315, member: 5296"

And my "passions" aren't against the KJV.....

OK.

 

[Baptist4life]

BTW, RLVaughn, I take "pot shots" at the KJV........

Hmmmm.

 

[Yeshua1]

And what makes you think that after the Hebrew children claimed that Jehovah the one true God would deliver them, that he would think a son of one of the pagan gods would be in the furnace delivering them?

Your anti KJV passions are blinding you from seeing the truth.

NONE here would be against the Kjv, but would be against KJVO itself!

 

[rlvaughn]

NONE here would be against the Kjv...

None?? I remain unconvinced of that.

 

[Yeshua1]

I remain unconvinced of that.

why would we be? Its the greatest English translation ever made, based upon historical impact alone. I do see some modern versions superior to it, but does not mean would throw a KJV in the trash!

 

[rlvaughn]

Who is the "we" for whom you speak?

 

[Eliyahu]

KJVOs love to criticize newer versions for reading "a son of the gods" in Daniel 3:25 while the KJV reads "the Son of God".

But...

Is the KJV correct, while the newer versions are wrong? I don't think so.

Remember, at the time he threw the Jews into the furnace, Nebuchadnezzar was a PAGAN. He was punishing the Jews for refusing to worship his IDOL. He had evidently forgotten about what Daniel had told him about THE God & was taken up in his own idolatry again.

Not even Danny knew who Jesus is. All he knew was that Messiah was coming. He didn't know Messiah's name or actual office. And certainly, Neb didn't know, either! All Neb knew was that the 4th person walking in the furnace was far more than just another man. He had no idea He was the Son of the REAL GOD. Thus, Neb said He looked like "a son of the gods".

Yes, even the highly-intelligent Nebuchadnezzar was in shock, same as we would be upon seeing men walking around inside a blast furnace. in ordinary garb with another Person who appeared to be far more than just a man. Neb saw the 3 men tossed into the furnace, and know only 3 men had been tossed in, so not only was he astounded to see them unharmed, but he had no idea where the 4th one had come from.

And again, had Neb remembered what Daniel had told him about the REAL God when he passed on God's interps of the king's dream, he wouldn't've set up an idol to begin with. And again, not even daniel knew who Jesus is.

Thus, "son of the gods" is what Neb said. The KJV men took the liberty to add their own thoughts to the translation. And when he'd recovered some from his shock, Neb said the Jews God had sent His ANGEL to rescue those men. He simply had no clue that it was Jesus, or that Jesus is the Son of God.

What say the Hebrew readers here?

 

[Eliyahu]

Elahin in Aramaic could have meant the Singular God as well as Elohim in Hebrew did.

Who can have plural fathers? Any son god could have several gods as his fathers?

3:15 used Absolute Elah, then in 3:28 Elahhon is translated as God, singular.
Whether Elahhon is the construct of Elahin or Elah or not, what King Neb meant was the singular God.
King Neb knew that God of Sadrach is the Singular God who has a Son, the Son of God, Pre-Incarnate Jesus Christ.
Daniel and his friends knew about Pre-Incarnate Jesus Christ much more than we presume today that they knew, and they must have preached to King Neb and his people. Without such faith, they couldn't be bold to withstand the fierce fire.
Pre-Incarnate Jesus Christ loved and protected His people even before coming into this world, even by entering into the burning furnace.
His Love is the same as yesterday, today, and for evermore.

Eliyahu

 

[SheepWhisperer]

KJVOs love to criticize newer versions for reading "a son of the gods" in Daniel 3:25 while the KJV reads "the Son of God".

But...

Is the KJV correct, while the newer versions are wrong? I don't think so.

Remember, at the time he threw the Jews into the furnace, Nebuchadnezzar was a PAGAN. He was punishing the Jews for refusing to worship his IDOL. He had evidently forgotten about what Daniel had told him about THE God & was taken up in his own idolatry again.

Not even Danny knew who Jesus is. All he knew was that Messiah was coming. He didn't know Messiah's name or actual office. And certainly, Neb didn't know, either! All Neb knew was that the 4th person walking in the furnace was far more than just another man. He had no idea He was the Son of the REAL GOD. Thus, Neb said He looked like "a son of the gods".

Yes, even the highly-intelligent Nebuchadnezzar was in shock, same as we would be upon seeing men walking around inside a blast furnace. in ordinary garb with another Person who appeared to be far more than just a man. Neb saw the 3 men tossed into the furnace, and know only 3 men had been tossed in, so not only was he astounded to see them unharmed, but he had no idea where the 4th one had come from.

And again, had Neb remembered what Daniel had told him about the REAL God when he passed on God's interps of the king's dream, he wouldn't've set up an idol to begin with. And again, not even daniel knew who Jesus is.

Thus, "son of the gods" is what Neb said. The KJV men took the liberty to add their own thoughts to the translation. And when he'd recovered some from his shock, Neb said the Jews God had sent His ANGEL to rescue those men. He simply had no clue that it was Jesus, or that Jesus is the Son of God.

What say the Hebrew readers here?

God could have saved the 3 Hebrew boys any way he chose. But He chose to put the "4th man" in there and I believe God did it that way for the King to SEE him and for US to read about it. If God performed a miracle like that, I have no problem believing that He could reveal to King Nebuchadnezzar WHO or "what" that 4th man was. He was Jesus.

 

[robycop3]

God could have saved the 3 Hebrew boys any way he chose. But He chose to put the "4th man" in there and I believe God did it that way for the King to SEE him and for US to read about it. If God performed a miracle like that, I have no problem believing that He could reveal to King Nebuchadnezzar WHO or "what" that 4th man was. He was Jesus.

But, DID God reveal Jesus' ID to Neb? I don't think so, as Neb became full of himself again, leading to God's making him insane for 7 years.

 

[HankD]

But, DID God reveal Jesus' ID to Neb? I don't think so, as Neb became full of himself again, leading to God's making him insane for 7 years.

Hey it happens to the best of us.