Son of God

[Van]

"And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"

Not a response. The consequence of the fall is passed spiritually not biologically.

But only God incarnate is uniquely divine. And so Jesus is both the Christ and Son of God for the purpose of providing salvation of some of humanity, everyone believing into Him.

 

[timtofly]

Not a response. The consequence of the fall is passed spiritually not biologically.

But only God incarnate is uniquely divine. And so Jesus is both the Christ and Son of God for the purpose of providing salvation of some of humanity, everyone believing into Him.

Adam did not pass on the image of God.

Adam passed on dead corruptible flesh.

Can you prove you do not have dead corruptible flesh at birth? Then the first time you disobey God, you stop being a son of God and are given dead corruptible flesh?

Why would God's Word not be a response? You seem to not want my opinion. Now you don't want God's either?

After God pronounced Judgment on Adam, Moses wrote the text as if Adam was not even fazed.

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."

Adam named Eve after disobedience and after God's judgment, and immediately called her the mother of all living. How is that not an indictment than dead corruptible flesh is not biological? Is Eve only our spiritual mother?

After death, Eve certainly was never the mother of a son of God. Adam did not pass down sin genetically. Adam passed down temporal, corruptible, dead, physical flesh. What else would Adam's image be?

The spirit does not come from Adam but is in God's presence. How can Adam give his offspring spirit, when he was spiritually dead? Of course the spirit of God is not genetically passed down from Adam.

Adam literally has nothing spiritual to pass down. All Adam had is dead genetics. That is why I posted that verse. Seth gave us all, Adam's dead genetics. That is all Adam was left with.

 

[George Antonios]

Some, in my opinion mistakenly, think Logos became a "son" when Logos became "flesh" (God incarnate)

Literally by definition.
John calls him the Word when discussing his preincarnate-state then switches to the Son when discussing his post-incarnate state. Watch:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, (NOW THE SWITCH):

Joh ...the only begotten of the Father (now switching from God)

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

The outline is as clear as could be. I never understood what is controversial here.

The term Son of God is primarily a reference to Christ's humanity.
He is divine as the Word.
He is primarily human as the Son.

If Son is strictly a reference to subordination, then why isn't the Holy Ghost ever called Son?
Why is it only the incarnate Word that gets called Son?
Because he gets incarnate, of course.

 

[Van]

Adam did not pass on the image of God.

Adam passed on dead corruptible flesh.

Can you prove you do not have dead corruptible flesh at birth? Then the first time you disobey God, you stop being a son of God and are given dead corruptible flesh?

Why would God's Word not be a response? You seem to not want my opinion. Now you don't want God's either?

After God pronounced Judgment on Adam, Moses wrote the text as if Adam was not even fazed.

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."

Adam named Eve after disobedience and after God's judgment, and immediately called her the mother of all living. How is that not an indictment than dead corruptible flesh is not biological? Is Eve only our spiritual mother?

After death, Eve certainly was never the mother of a son of God. Adam did not pass down sin genetically. Adam passed down temporal, corruptible, dead, physical flesh. What else would Adam's image be?

The spirit does not come from Adam but is in God's presence. How can Adam give his offspring spirit, when he was spiritually dead? Of course the spirit of God is not genetically passed down from Adam.

Adam literally has nothing spiritual to pass down. All Adam had is dead genetics. That is why I posted that verse. Seth gave us all, Adam's dead genetics. That is all Adam was left with.

Sir, I do not want an opinion, nor a non-germane verse without explanation.

 

[Van]

Literally by definition.
John calls him the Word when discussing his preincarnate-state then switches to the Son when discussing his post-incarnate state. Watch:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, (NOW THE SWITCH):

Joh ...the only begotten of the Father (now switching from God)

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

The outline is as clear as could be. I never understood what is controversial here.

The term Son of God is primarily a reference to Christ's humanity.
He is divine as the Word.
He is primarily human as the Son.

If Son is strictly a reference to subordination, then why isn't the Holy Ghost ever called Son?
Why is it only the incarnate Word that gets called Son?
Because he gets incarnate, of course.

I disagree, "Son" is primarily a designation of Logos as God's emissary, His Christ.

 

[George Antonios]

I disagree, "Son" is primarily a designation of Logos as God's emissary, His Christ.

Please deal with the points in the post.

 

[Van]

Please deal with the points in the post.

No need to deal with your "points!"
1) John used "Logos in John 1:1 and 1:14. To claim that supports becoming the Son when He became flesh is nonsense, if true John 1:14 would use Son.

2) I already (post #8) dealt with "Son of God" being used as a designation of Christ as sent as an emissary.

3) Other designations are used for the Third Person of the Trinity, Spirit of Truth, Spirit of Adoption, Spirit of Promise.

4) Logos is used to refer to God's emissary, His Representative, His Lamb, His Redeemer.

5) Logos is not used because the Third Person became His Son when He became flesh. That is nonsense.

 

[The Archangel]

Not a response. The consequence of the fall is passed spiritually not biologically.

This is a hard argument to support since physical death is the result of sin. As Paul says: [12] Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—[13] for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. [14] Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. (Romans 5:12–14 ESV)

The Archangel

 

[The Archangel]

Adam did not pass on the image of God.

This is a hard argument to make. God tells Noah in Genesis 9:

[5] And for your lifeblood I will require a reckoning: from every beast I will require it and from man. From his fellow man I will require a reckoning for the life of man.

[6] “Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed,
for God made man in his own image. (Genesis 9:5–6 ESV)

That the Image of God is passed on is evident in this passage. Because man is made in the image of God, is precisely why God gives a death penalty here. Since this passage is significantly distant from the life, sin, and death of Adam, the Image must be passed on.

The Archangel

 

[Van]

This is a hard argument to support since physical death is the result of sin. As Paul says: [12] Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—[13] for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. [14] Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. (Romans 5:12–14 ESV)

The Archangel

This spiritual transmission is obvious because the fall was transmitted to Eve spiritually and not biologically.

 

[The Archangel]

This spiritual transmission is obvious because the fall was transmitted to Eve spiritually and not biologically.

Strawman. I'm not arguing against "Spiritual Transmission" (though I am not addressing your idea of Adam transmitting the Fall to Eve). I am, however, arguing against your assertion that the consequences of the Fall are not also biologically transmitted... Since death comes to all mankind through Adam.

The Archangel

 

[Van]

Strawman. I'm not arguing against "Spiritual Transmission" (though I am not addressing your idea of Adam transmitting the Fall to Eve). I am, however, arguing against your assertion that the consequences of the Fall are not also biologically transmitted... Since death comes to all mankind through Adam.

The Archangel

You can invent that consequence in your mind. Fine. That issue is not the topic.

 

[George Antonios]

No need to deal with your "points!"

Well, I guess that's it then Van, isn't it?

 

[The Archangel]

You can invent that consequence in your mind. Fine. That issue is not the topic.

You mean the consequence that Paul discusses in Romans 5? Yeah, that wasn't invented in my mind.

The Archangel

 

[timtofly]

Sir, I do not want an opinion, nor a non-germane verse without explanation.

Every post here is an opinion. Why bother posting if you expect God to post back? That would be called private "in person prayer", not a public forum.

 

[timtofly]

This is a hard argument to make. God tells Noah in Genesis 9:

[5] And for your lifeblood I will require a reckoning: from every beast I will require it and from man. From his fellow man I will require a reckoning for the life of man.

[6] “Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed,
for God made man in his own image. (Genesis 9:5–6 ESV)

That the Image of God is passed on is evident in this passage. Because man is made in the image of God, is precisely why God gives a death penalty here. Since this passage is significantly distant from the life, sin, and death of Adam, the Image must be passed on.

The Archangel

No, what is evident is that Adam was in God's image. God broke His own Noahic Law. God did not take Cain's life for killing Abel. In fact Cain was still in God's image, body, soul, and spirit. He looked the same as all the sons of God. No one would have ever known he was a murderer, even though he was cursed from doing what Adam was cursed to do.

Adam disobeyed and physically died. Then he had to till the ground. Cain did not physically die, but he could not even till the ground. Cain was given a mark so all would know he had sinned and also could not be punished. God already punished Cain.

Of course after the Flood capital punishment was required. There were no more sons of God left living on earth. Only Adam's dead flesh now living under capital punishment. Which most reject today. People get away with murder and rehabilitated. Or people just kill each other and killed in the process, called war.

Strange you all quote verses or just make opinionated statements. Then when a verse is given it is not even addressed:

"And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"

Certainly Adam was physically dead in a corruptible body. He was separated spiritually from God. So Seth only got a soul from Adam that was eternal and since the soul is not genetic, all Seth got was a dead corruptible body. Seth would have to be born again into God's family via the Holy Spirit. Seth was just like you and me. Certainly your dead body is not God's permanent incorruptible physical body. You are a son by adoption not genetics. Until you receive God's permanent incorruptible physical body, you are not a son of God in a literal sense. Adam had God's permanent incorruptible physical body, then he disobeyed God, and physically died. Now like Satan telling Eve: "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" you can claim Adam did not physically die. I accept God's Word, Adam did die, that instant. Just as fast as becoming a son of God will happen at the Second Coming.

 

[Van]

Every post here is an opinion. Why bother posting if you expect God to post back? That would be called private "in person prayer", not a public forum.

Obfuscation on display.

 

[Van]

Strawman. I'm not arguing against "Spiritual Transmission" (though I am not addressing your idea of Adam transmitting the Fall to Eve). I am, however, arguing against your assertion that the consequences of the Fall are not also biologically transmitted... Since death comes to all mankind through Adam.

The Archangel

Did I say Adam, rather than God, transmitted the Fall? God transmitted the consequences of Adam's sin such that Eve's eyes were open spiritually or supernaturally, not biologically. And Adam "died" spiritually, not biologically that day. Further, since Adam died physically but had already been created as a biological human, his fallen mortality was not transmitted to him biologically.

 

[Van]

Adam did not pass on the image of God.

Adam passed on dead corruptible flesh.

Can you prove you do not have dead corruptible flesh at birth? SNIP
.

It is sometimes hard to disprove a fallacy. If you make up something never challenged in scripture, can we prove from scripture it is not true? Nope.

Thus we should not proclaim or trust in what the Bible does not say, but rather proclaim and trust in what the Bible does say!

 

[Van]

Was Jesus sent from God? Yes. As God's emissary? Yes Could this then be the intended meaning of the phrase "Son of God" when used as a designation of the Christ? See post #8

Matthew 10:40
“He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.