Son of JOHN 3:16 :)

[Van]

No it is not a term for nullifying what Scripture says. It is a method people use for taking Scripture out of context to make it say something it does not.

John 3:16 says nothing about humankind. It says world. John 3:16 is not speaking of all individuals. That is not a question that verse is answering.

1. Nowhere does the Scripture say God desires all persons to be saved. If that was truly His will, it would be so. In fact, Scripture says pretty plainly that there are some that are not desired to be saved and rather are vessels of destruction.
2. Nowhere does Scripture say Christ died for those who are not chosen. And there is no "to be" chosen. You either are or you are not, it is as plain as that.
3. Common ground but I think we also mean slightly different things by that statement.

A Greek word can be translated as "world" or the same word can be translated more literally, humankind.
Did anyone say humankind refers to specific individuals? Nope so obfuscation on display.
Scripture (John 3:16) says God desires all people to be saved according to His redemption plan.
Every individual conceived in sin starts out as a vessel of destruction, children of wrath.(Ephesians 2:3)
Christ died as a ransom for all. (1 Timothy 2:6)
No individual was chosen before creation, 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes that assertion.

Folks, all they do is repeat their mantra, full of generalized claims of what scripture does not say.

 

[Reformed1689]

A Greek word can be translated as "world" or the same word can be translated more literally, humankind.

No, Kosmos is not literally humankind. It can be used in the sense of people, but not literally translated as people.

Scripture (John 3:16) says God desires all people to be saved according to His redemption plan.

Where? That's not in that verse at all.

Every individual conceived in sin starts out as a vessel of destruction, children of wrath.(Ephesians 2:3)

It says in nature we are children of wrath. It does not say we start out as a vessel of destruction and that our purpose somehow changes.

Christ died as a ransom for all. (1 Timothy 2:6)

This is taken out of context. The whole context of the chapter shows this is talking about types of people, not individuals.

No individual was chosen before creation, 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes that assertion.

This literally has no bearing on being chosen before creation.

 

[Van]

No, Kosmos is not literally humankind. It can be used in the sense of people, but not literally translated as people. Of course it means humankind.

Where? That's not in that verse at all. Everyone believing into Him includes everyone.

It says in nature we are children of wrath. It does not say we start out as a vessel of destruction and that our purpose somehow changes. Right, got it children of wrath are vessels of mercy.

This is taken out of context. The whole context of the chapter shows this is talking about types of people, not individuals. Complete rubbish, God desires all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4) therefore Christ gave His life as a ransom for all.

This literally has no bearing on being chosen before creation.

Taint so is all they have folks, non-stop denial of the obvious.

 

[Reformed1689]

Taint so is all they have folks, non-stop denial of the obvious.

Everyone believing into him does not include everyone, it includes everyone believing. There's a difference.

1 Timothy 2:4 relies on the WHOLE passage, not just the out of context verse. Out of context is all you have.

And having a meaning of humankind in usage does not mean you literally translate it humankind. That's just ignorant.

 

[Van]

Everyone believing into him does not include everyone, it includes everyone believing. There's a difference. Yes, that is my point! God's love provides the opportunity, but does not compel salvation.

1 Timothy 2:4 relies on the WHOLE passage, not just the out of context verse. Out of context is all you have. "The Calvinist doctrine is nowhere to be found within the context of scripture, so they claim the actual truth of scripture is "out of context." I kid you not.

And having a meaning of humankind in usage does not mean you literally translate it humankind. That's just ignorant.

Well I am no rocket scientist, but translating the literal meaning of a word or phrase seems fine to me.

Folks, John 3:16: God loved humankind in this way, He gave is one of a kind Son so that everyone believing into Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Reformed1689]

Well I am no rocket scientist, but translating the literal meaning of a word or phrase seems fine to me.

Folks, John 3:16: God loved humankind in this way, He gave is one of a kind Son so that everyone believing into Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Except that is not the literal meaning of the word. Kosmos does not literally mean humankind.

 

[Reformed1689]

Taint so is all they have folks, non-stop denial of the obvious.

It's not "Taint So" Van. It's "You are wrong" with explanation.

 

[Van]

It's not "Taint So" Van. It's "You are wrong" with explanation.

Calvinism is false doctrine. Anyone who denies this reality denies truth. The literal meaning as used by John is humankind.

Folks, John 3:16: God loved humankind in this way, He gave is one of a kind Son so that everyone believing into Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Reformed1689]

Calvinism is false doctrine. Anyone who denies this reality denies truth. The literal meaning as used by John is humankind.

Folks, John 3:16: God loved humankind in this way, He gave is one of a kind Son so that everyone believing into Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

I think you confuse the terms literal meaning and sense. They are not the same thing.

 

[Reformed1689]

Calvinism is false doctrine. Anyone who denies this reality denies truth. The literal meaning as used by John is humankind.

Folks, John 3:16: God loved humankind in this way, He gave is one of a kind Son so that everyone believing into Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Arminianism or Anti-Calvinism is false doctrine. Anyone who denies this reality denies truth. See how that works?

 

[Van]

I think you confuse the terms literal meaning and sense. They are not the same thing.

I think you confuse to obfuscate.

 

[Van]

Arminianism or Anti-Calvinism is false doctrine. Anyone who denies this reality denies truth. See how that works?

This is all they have folks, make claims devoid of scriptural support.
1) Did I support that Ephesians 1:4 does not refer to an individual election using 1 Peter 2:9-10 Yes.
2) Did I support that the Greek word translated world has the meaning of humankind in John 3:16? Yes nothing else could possibly believe into Him. Not plants, or rocks or animals.
3) All they have is deny then change the subject. Calvinism is not found anywhere in scripture.

 

[Reformed1689]

This is all they have folks, make claims devoid of scriptural support.
1) Did I support that Ephesians 1:4 does not refer to an individual election using 1 Peter 2:9-10 Yes.
2) Did I support that the Greek word translated world has the meaning of humankind in John 3:16? Yes nothing else could possibly believe into Him. Not plants, or rocks or animals.
3) All they have is deny then change the subject. Calvinism is not found anywhere in scripture.

Van you are flat wrong on point 1. Go ahead and say Taint So but I've already shown the error. 2, I agree on the USAGE of the word. That however is not the DEFINITION of the word. There is a difference.
3. How have we changed the subject? I mean really?

 

[Van]

Van you are flat wrong on point 1. Go ahead and say Taint So but I've already shown the error. 2, I agree on the USAGE of the word. That however is not the DEFINITION of the word. There is a difference.
3. How have we changed the subject? I mean really?

How long must we put up with this constant claims, but unreferenced, about past glory? Now this poster wants to argue the difference between what a word means, and its definition. Yet another example of they "deny then change the subject" ploy of false teachers.

This is all they have folks, make claims devoid of scriptural support.
1) Did I support that Ephesians 1:4 does not refer to an individual election using 1 Peter 2:9-10 Yes.
2) Did I support that the Greek word translated world has the meaning of humankind in John 3:16? Yes nothing else could possibly believe into Him. Not plants, or rocks or animals.
3) All they have is deny then change the subject. Calvinism is not found anywhere in scripture.

Folks, John 3:16: God loved humankind in this way, He gave is one of a kind Son so that everyone believing into Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Reformed1689]

Now this poster wants to argue the difference between what a word means, and its definition.

That is not what I said. I said the way it is USED can be different than its definition.

 

[Van]

That is not what I said. I said the way it is USED can be different than its definition.

Something that can be different can also be the same. You are changing the subject from John 3:16, everyone knows it.

 

[Reformed1689]

Something that can be different can also be the same. You are changing the subject from John 3:16, everyone knows it.

Changing the subject from John 3:16? All I am doing is discussing John 3:16! Specifically the word Kosmos in John 3:16.