Songs and Christian Liberty

[JonC]

It is not at all Christian of you to rub offense into the faces of people who you know do not appreciate it.
You cause an unnecessary stumbling block, more by your blatant show of it than by any ignorance. You have no ignorance here.
You have liberty? Have it to yourself.

It is not that the topic is even being discussed. I expect that on a forum. We were discussing it.
But to draw attention to what you are doing says plenty. It should bother you that you are trying to offend someone else’s conscience.

It is not at all Christian of you to rub offense into the faces of people who you know do not appreciate it.
You cause an unnecessary stumbling block, more by your blatant show of it than by any ignorance. You have no ignorance here.
You have liberty? Have it to yourself.

It is not that the topic is even being discussed. I expect that on a forum. We were discussing it.
But to draw attention to what you are doing says plenty. It should bother you that you are trying to offend someone else’s conscience.

I did not realize you were ashamed of your belief.

1. You and others made statements about churches using CWM.

2. What was provided by those peoole was not CWM (somebody offered a heavy metal song, another offered Metallica, a few mentioned Contemporary Christian rock or pop).

3. It is important that people know the music that is being called satanic, music that God rejects, identical to secular music.

Hence this thread.

It is for posting the music as is heard were you worshipping God along side those praising Him in a church service.

Is there a reason you find it offensive to actually provide examples of what is being condemned?

 

[JonC]

I did not realize you were ashamed of your belief.

1. You and others made statements about churches using CWM.

2. What was provided by those peoole was not CWM (somebody offered a heavy metal song, another offered Metallica, a few mentioned Contemporary Christian rock or pop).

3. It is important that people know the music that is being called satanic, music that God rejects, identical to secular music.


Hence this thread.

It is for posting the music as is heard were you worshipping God along side those praising Him in a church service.


Is there a reason you find it offensive to actually provide examples of what is being condemned?

You don’t read anything but what you want to.

It is solely your response that I have an issue with. And it is not for me that I am speaking up. It is for others here who you know that you are offending.

I don’t know why you think I am ashamed of what I believe when I am declaring it all over again. Except for your blatant disregard for proper use of Christian liberty, I would not have engaged your thread.

I do not know your complaint. You said CWM is, to you, indistinguishable from secular music. I said I get that. It is not your genre. But many of us can tell a distinction.

Proper Christian liberty is not condemning the worship of other Christians. It is being obedient to God in not doing so (read Rom 14).

My posting praise music we use in my church and noting that this is the music some declare is "satanic", "rejected by God", identical to rock music, IS NOT going against liberty.

BUT I would be interested in how you defend your accusation.

 

[Ben1445]

I do not know your complaint. You said CWM is, to you, indistinguishable from secular music. I said I get that. It is not your genre. But many of us can tell a distinction.

Proper Christian liberty is not condemning the worship of other Christians. It is being obedient to God in not doing so (read Rom 14).

My posting praise music we use in my church and noting that this is the music some declare is "satanic", "rejected by God", identical to rock music, IS NOT going against liberty.

BUT I would be interested in how you defend your accusation.

You continue to push your offensive behavior towards people that you know are offended by it. Curtesy around here is usually like “don’t start a thread like this for 20 days” or something like that. I know it wasn’t stated, but it is common sense curtesy.
You not only mentioned that what you are doing is offensive, but you called people who you knew would be offended to the thread. This is not having your liberty to yourself. This is exactly what Paul was teaching to not do.
But you are self-righteous. I don’t see why saying it a third time will help you acknowledge it.

 

[Ben1445]

I did not realize you were ashamed of your belief.

1. You and others made statements about churches using CWM.

2. What was provided by those peoole was not CWM (somebody offered a heavy metal song, another offered Metallica, a few mentioned Contemporary Christian rock or pop).

3. It is important that people know the music that is being called satanic, music that God rejects, identical to secular music.

Hence this thread.

It is for posting the music as is heard were you worshipping God along side those praising Him in a church service.

Is there a reason you find it offensive to actually provide examples of what is being condemned?

I’m not going to hide your problem on a different thread. it happened here on this thread. It happened to people on this thread. It is not right to brush it into another corner.

1 Timothy 5:20
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

 

[Ben1445]

Apologies will be accepted here on the thread and in the audience where the offense occurred.

 

[JonC]

People are offended that my church uses CWM and I post about it? Too bad.

I am offended that members declare God rejects the worship of His children if they use music they do not like.

I am offended that members call the worship of Christians "demonic" because they use instruments.

That should be what offends you in regard to Christian liberty. But it isn't.

What offends you is that I start a thread of praise songs we use in my congregation.


Maybe you should remove that log before helping me with my splinter.

 

[Charlie24]

@Ben1445 posted that he cannot not discern the difference between CWM (Praise) and secular rock music. That is fair as our ears are not tuned to genres that are foreign to us.

@Charlie24 posted that the Holy Spirit rejects the worship of Christians singing this music.

Others on this board describe praise and worship music as "satanic".

I thought it would be interesting to start a thread about this "worldly" and "demonic" rock music Baptists are using to worship God in vain.

The criteria is the songs posted have to be of actual CWM (worship and praise) as churches use (not at some concert or in some media format different from corporate worship).

So put in your ear plugs kiddos, fasten your seat belts...

Ten Scriptural Reasons Why the Rock Beat is Evil in Any Form | Truediscipleship

truediscipleship.com

 

[Ben1445]

People are offended that my church uses CWM and I post about it? Too bad.

I am offended that members declare God rejects the worship of His children if they use music they do not like.

I am offended that members call the worship of Christians "demonic" because they use instruments.

That should be what offends you in regard to Christian liberty. But it isn't.

What offends you is that I start a thread of praise songs we use in my congregation.


Maybe you should remove that log before helping me with my splinter.

Alright since you deleted all the posts from the other thread where the offense occurred and blocked me from interacting with you there, apologies will be accepted here.
They are requested.

 

[JonC]

Ten Scriptural Reasons Why the Rock Beat is Evil in Any Form | Truediscipleship

truediscipleship.com

That has to be one of the dumbest articles I have read in my entire life.

I grew up listening to rock. I am 57 and was never rebellious towards my parents. My dad liked country music (which has that "rock beat" and was not rebellious. My mom liked Elvis, and was not rebellious. My son listens to Christian rap and hip hop. He is not a rebellious kid.

That said, there is rebellious rock music. It is not "that rock beat" that makes kids rebellious.

Rebellious kids seek rebellious and counter-culture environments. It gives them a sence of belonging in their rebelluousness.


Anyway.....this is off topic.

This thread is offering examples of the worship you believe God rejects.

 

[Charlie24]

That has to be one of the dumbest articles I have read in my entire life.

I grew up listening to rock. I am 57 and was never rebellious towards my parents. My dad liked country music (which has that "rock beat" and was not rebellious. My mom liked Elvis, and was not rebellious. My son listens to Christian rap and hip hop. He is not a rebellious kid.

That said, there is rebellious rock music. It is not "that rock beat" that makes kids rebellious.

Rebellious kids seek rebellious and counter-culture environments. It gives them a sence of belonging in their rebelluousness.


Anyway.....this is off topic.

This thread is offering examples of the worship you believe God rejects.

Look at yourself, Jon. That's what rebellion looks like.

 

[JonC]

Alright since you deleted all the posts from the other thread where the offense occurred and blocked me from interacting with you there, apologies will be accepted here.
They are requested.

I did not delete any posts.
You may apologize here.

 

[JonC]

Look at yourself, Jon. That's what rebellion looks like.

You need to explain. This comment does not make sence to me.

I have always worshipped God with hymns and contemporary praise songs. I remember when the Baptist hymnal added a few contemporary praise songs (I was pre-teen...I think...maybe early teen). I liked that.

So you need to explain that comment.

 

[Ben1445]

Apologies will be accepted here on the thread and in the audience where the offense occurred.

And this is not where the offense occurred.

 

[JonC]

It is telling, @Ben1445 , that members can post threads of hymns without some members trying to shut it down.

I post a thread of praise songs a few members think is satanic and you go crazy in the name of "liberty".

 

[Ben1445]

I did not delete any posts.
You may apologize here.

You have removed them from where they were posted.

 

[Ben1445]

It is telling, @Ben1445 , that members can post threads of hymns without some members trying to shut it down.

I post a thread of praise songs a few members think is satanic and you go crazy in the name of "liberty".

You called me and others to come see it and ridicule our beliefs on the issue.
This is not merely posting a thread. You are actively saying that you will continue to do what others think is sin in front of them. You called them to come watch.
It is your stumbling block behavior that I am requesting an apology for.

 

[JonC]

You have removed them from where they were posted.

Yes. I moved them. I did not delete them.

When something is deleted it is erased (technically, here it is hidden from public view).

When something is moved it is taken from one place and put in another place.

Think of it this way -

You have a picture. I burn it. I "deleted" your picture.

You have a picture. I take it off the living room wall and hang it on the den wall. I "moved" your picture.

 

[JonC]

You called me and others to come see it and ridicule our beliefs on the issue.
This is not merely posting a thread. You are actively saying that you will continue to do what others think is sin in front of them. You called them to come watch.
It is your stumbling block behavior that I am requesting an apology for.

No I didn't.

I used you and others as verifications of my claim that dome believed praise music was identical to secular music, or was demonic, or is rejected by God.

Too often members start strawman threads (like "dome members reject that Jesus had to die").

When we make a claim we need to offer evidence the claim is legitimate.


It is not offensive because you did say that praise music sounds just like secular music. It was claimed that all music accompanied by instruments (whether hymns or CWM) is satanic. Charlie did state that God rejects the worship of brethren who use praise music.

The purpose of that thread was simply to provide examples of the music that was being discussed.

 

[Ben1445]

No I didn't.

You tagged us. If you don’t want to call us don’t tag us.

I used you and others as verifications of my claim that dome believed praise music was identical to secular music, or was demonic, or is rejected by God.

Too often members start strawman threads (like "dome members reject that Jesus had to die").

When we make a claim we need to offer evidence the claim is legitimate.


It is not offensive because you did say that praise music sounds just like secular music. It was claimed that all music accompanied by instruments (whether hymns or CWM) is satanic. Charlie did state that God rejects the worship of brethren who use praise music.

The purpose of that thread was simply to provide examples of the music that was being discussed.

 

[JonC]

You tagged us. If you don’t want to call us don’t tag us.
View attachment 13552

I had to tag you (either my referencing your name or by each quote) to reference you.

Otherwise it would just be an unsubstantiated claim.