Songs and doctrinal correctness

[Covenanter]

I'd sooner sing, "Lo! He comes with clouds descending!"

Even though the Scripture reference is to the AD 70 destruction.

 

[Salty]

Second, what and who is the King coming for exactly? What is the song describing? The Millenial Kingdom? After the second coming? The song is a hodge-podge of muddled dispensational theology.

In a sermon he preached a while back, John MacArthur addressed this famous Gaither song in a message titled "Our God-Breathed Bible". I am sure you are familiar with the story. Someone made a formal request to the Gaithers to explain the theology behind the song. The person claims to have received the following response back from the Gaithers via a letter:

"Regarding the interpretation of the song The King is Coming, of all songs that song has been a gift from God. Bill and Gloria," that is Mr. and Mrs. Gaither, "do not profess to be theologians. The song came quickly to them and they do not care to discuss the theology of it. In fact, they feel that to dissect the song would be tampering with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit who inspired the song."

The inspiration of the song? That is a bold claim to make. The only words that are inspired are found in the Bible. Now, it is a different thing to say that a person felt inspired to write lyrics to a song, ...

No, I was not aware of the story about the story you mentioned.
To some extent, we should all be theologians
As I have said in the past - We know what we believe - the challenge is that we do not know Why we believe it.

 

[Reformed]

No, I was not aware of the story about the story you mentioned.
To some extent, we should all be theologians
As I have said in the past - We know what we believe - the challenge is that we do not know Why we believe it.

One last thing. Compare the substance of the Gaither's song with the King of Glory who permeates the words of Psalm 24:

24:1The earth is the LORD’S, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.2 For He has founded it upon the seas And established it upon the rivers.3 Who may ascend into the hill of the LORD? And who may stand in His holy place?4 He who has clean hands and a pure heart, Who has not lifted up his soul to falsehood And has not sworn deceitfully.5 He shall receive a blessing from the LORD And righteousness from the God of his salvation.6 This is the generation of those who seek Him, Who seek Your face--even Jacob. Selah.

7 Lift up your heads, O gates, And be lifted up, O ancient doors, That the King of glory may come in!8 Who is the King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, The LORD mighty in battle.9 Lift up your heads, O gates, And lift them up, O ancient doors, That the King of glory may come in!10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, He is the King of glory. Selah.

I am not saying there are not times for feel-good, sappy songs. I am suggesting that such times are not when the body of Christ gathers on the Lord's day for worship.

Have a blessed day!

 

[Salty]

.
Have a blessed day!

Likewise!

We may disagree on some doctrine - but that is okay

The most important doctrine is salvation by grace thu Faith

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Even though the Scripture reference is to the AD 70 destruction.

Why would anyone want to sing a song about that? Our Lord wept over it (Luke 19:41-44).

 

[Jerome]

What are you thoughts about "The King is Coming"

I do not believe in a pretribulational rapture of the Church, so I definitely am not on the same doctrinal page as Bill and Gloria Gaither

Salty, you seem to be saying the Gaither song does not fit with the rapture, yet Reformed/Herald/MorseOp, you're claiming that the Gaithers believe in it.

The Gaithers pushing pretribulational dispensationalism? Huh? Please substantiate that howler.

 

[Salty]

Salty, you seem to be saying the Gaither song does not fit with the rapture, yet Reformed/Herald/MorseOp, you're claiming that the Gaithers believe in it.

The Gaithers pushing pretribulational dispensationalism? Huh? Please substantiate that howler.

Actually, what I said - was that the song is not doctrinally correct - whether you believe in pre/mid/post tribulation
Activities are not going to cease.

 

[Jerome]

Yes, not you, another poster is suggesting the Gaithers are pretribulational dispensationalists!

What are you thoughts about "The King is Coming"

your thoughts on the theology of the song.

I dont see a problem discussing it.
The song says - "the market place is empty - no more traffic in the streets....." That will not be the case!
Busy wifes will cease their labor..in the court room no debate - other than people being take up in the rapture - things
will eventually get back to order (unless the defendant is raptured) Work will not be suspended - at least permanently - Granted the message of the song is that Jesus is coming again!
YES the Trumpet will sound -

 

[Reformed]

Actually, what I said - was that the song is not doctrinally correct

That is the main reason why I choose not to sing certain songs used during congregational worship. I think the dearth of sound theological content in worship music is directly tied to the lack of theological content from behind the pulpit. Everything starts with the preached word of God. Man shall not live by what? Every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (Mat. 4:4).

 

[Covenanter]

Why would anyone want to sing a song about that? Our Lord wept over it (Luke 19:41-44).

Do you sing it without noticing the words?

2 Ev'ry eye shall now behold Him,
robed in dreadful majesty;
those who set at naught and sold Him,
pierced, and nailed Him to the tree,
deeply wailing, deeply wailing,
shall the true Messiah see.

3 Every island, sea, and mountain,
heav'n and earth, shall flee away;
all who hate Him must, confounded,
hear the trump proclaim the day:
Come to judgment! Come to judgment!
Come to judgment, come away!
[/quote[

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Do you sing it without noticing the words?

Not at all, but the song is singing about our blessed hope and redemption:

Yea, amen! Let all adore Thee
High on Thine eternal throne;
Saviour, take the power and glory,
Claim the kingdom of Thine own;
Halleluiah......
Everlasting God come down!

and it is also a warning to unbelievers in the congregation to repent, turn to Christ and 'flee from the wrath to come,' because it hasn't come yet.
To sing about AD 70 is to sing about a past event over which the Lord Jesus wept and in which hundreds of thousands of people died. No thanks!

 

[Covenanter]

What do you think of this song?

How concerned should we be about the source of a hymn? Many of our standard hymns are by RCs & paedobaptists. When Spurgeon compiled his hymnbook, he was concerned that the words should be Scriptural & wasn't concerned at the denominational allegiance.

This hymn is from a Mormon, sung by a little girl in a Mormon family. Should we reject it? My prayer is that the peace in Christ may be a reality for all concerned - including those who listen.

(No relation me -Ian Day- except hopefully a brother in Christ.

I was surprised not to see any replies - please listen & comment.

 

[Reynolds]

For me, a song does not have to be theologically strong so long as it is not theologically wrong.

 

[1689Dave]

I was surprised not to see any replies - please listen & comment.

I think Paul gives us a guideline when he says:

“Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.” (Philippians 1:15–18) (KJV 1900)

 

[John of Japan]

Second, what and who is the King coming for exactly? What is the song describing? The Millenial Kingdom? After the second coming? The song is a hodge-podge of muddled dispensational theology.

Now wait a minute. I thought that elsewhere we established your bonafides as one who knows about dispensationalism, but this makes no sense at all. Where in the world does "The King Is Coming" tout anything dispensational? I was always puzzled by the song, wondering whether it was pre, mid, post, or what, but I have never a single time listened to it and thought, "Aha! Dispensationalism!"

I'm beginning to suspect that the word is simply a pejorative to you, and nothing more. "Aha! That guy has lousy theology. The dirty dispensationalist!"

 

[tyndale1946]

One thing I didn't address in the OP is that some songs might be OK for general gatherings for singing and fellowship but best left off in the church gathering. I'd put "Lord, build me a cabin in the corner of Gloryland" in that category. I think I get what the writer was trying to express and am not offended by the song, but think it more appropriate elsewhere than in the church's worship service.

I've never been in a church where the pastor/pastors/elders or some committee variation of this chose the hymns. (I've also never been in a church with "worship leaders" or "praise choruses".) As a bi-vocational pastor with many time constraints, I wouldn't want to add choosing which hymns will be sung in each worship service. For the most part, a trustworthy song leader and solid hymn book takes care of the problem of singing hymns that aren't doctrinally sound.

Since I don't announce my topic & the passage to be preached until I am in the pulpit and ready to preach (perhaps I am weird that way), I don't work with the song leader on coordinating the hymns to the message. I think there is room for churches arriving in different ways at singing hymns with doctrinal content if it is thought out one way or the other. (Some of the rural Primitive Baptist churches here sing before the preaching service with individual members calling out selections from their hymn book. But the hymn book is specifically a "denominational" hymn book that expresses the doctrine of their church, so no chance of someone calling out something they don't consider doctrinally sound.)

I agree with Brother Robert said about The Old Line Primitive Baptist and their song service, having led song service over 35 years... I may pick a song to sing or anyone in the congregation can select one... He is right the songs we sing are according to our doctrine in our denominational song book... The preacher will sometimes ask for a certain song before he goes to preach and the song leaders will oblige... He may select the closing song too... One other thing to keep in mind, we all sing without musical instruments... Brother Glen

 

[agedman]

it is important to consider the influence of the writer.

The writer of, “There is a Fountain” strayed into universalism, yet before his death repudiated such thinking. While living, I would not have sung the song. Now, few associate the author’s testimony with the song, so the lyrics win.

Writers associated with Hillsong and the Gaither’s are highly problematic, for the testimony of the association may allow for some to be snared into Satanic delusion.

Hillsong is particularly dangerous, and yet many Baptists are deceived.


Many years from now, when Hillsong is no more and the influence of that organization is no longer dangerous, then perhaps doctrinal lyrics may be used.

I think it is so very unfortunate that popularity drives music selection in churches.

 

[agedman]

Double post