sons of God?

[J. Jump]

Webdog if you will refer to one of my earlier posts in this thread you will see that the word translated "wives" does not neceassarily mean "wives." It could just as easily and I believe be a better translation as women.

These fallen angels did not marry these women, they just procreated with them trying to destroy the whole human race so that the "seed" spoken of earlier in Genesis could not come about. But of course God stepped in and made sure that the "seed" stayed in tact and through that "seed" Jesus was born into the world.

Satan is a fallen son of God and still rules this earth and he is still trying to do everything he can (which is not much any more) to try to not lose control of the territory that he has.

As to your question of whether God has dominion over satan and the other fallen angels of course He does. God rules over everything. But He has a plan in place and part of that plan is still allowing satan and his cohorts to continue ruling earth until His Son and His Son's bride are ready. The bride is not complete yet, so satan is still ruling. Also God is not done dealing with Israel yet, so there's another reason why satan and his cohorts are still in rulership.

But just because they are ruling the earth doesn't mean they can one up God. They still have to play by His rules.

 

[Ray Berrian]

J Jump,

You said, '. . . they just procreated with them trying to destroy the whole human race so that the "seed" spoken of earlier in Genesis could not come about. But of course God stepped in and made sure that the "seed" stayed in tact and through that "seed" Jesus was born into the world.'

Why didn't I think of that! This is clearly the best truth, and a new truth to me, I must admit. How did I miss that? Oh, well, you and the Holy Spirit taught me something new; again I am grateful for your insight.

Of course, I am referring to the Devil wanting to corrupt the lineage leading to the virgin birth of our Lord. Great truth!!! This is a wonderful insight.

I did know that God hated Esau because he married two to pagan, idolatrous women, so the Lord could not make Esau the lineage leading to the Promised Son--Jesus our Savior.

The old Devil tried every angle to divert the birth of our Savior and Lord.

Brother Ray

 

[J. Jump]

Amen brother Ray. But thank God His plans prevail! And now that satan can't get to Jesus, he is trying to keep as many Christians from realizing that they can have a part to play in the coming kingdom.

God's blessings to you and your family!!! And thanks for sharing as your message was very encouraging at a time when encouragment was needed!

And by the way it was new to me until a couple of months ago. I will send you some resource material you will probably enjoy.

 

[Ray Berrian]

J. Jump,

As the sons and daughters of God under this New Covenant, one of the best devices of the Devil is to get Christians to think they are in this fight as Christians all by themselves. He makes them think they are isolated and have little value in the Kingdom of God.

As Satan and his hords keep Christians discouraged--he has won the battle. If we are not active for Jesus we will be of little to no help to anyone else. Just being your best and being one vibrant Christian causes the demons to really worry.

I checked out your material. Good stuff!

 

[BobRyan]

The term "Sons of God" (as Adam was called) refer to the people of God.

As Christ said in Matt 22 - the angels are incapable of Marriage, family relationships and hence procreation. There is no indication at all that Angels can have families with humans.

Finally - it is certainly clear to all that bad angels have not "gotten better" since the flood. They remain "bad" and are nothing if not "worse" than they have been in the past.

God's condemnation in Genesis 6 is focused squarly on "man" not on "evil angels" and so God judges "man" in that chapter - not evil angels.

To see God pointing to judgment on evil angels see Rev 12.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Bible-boy:
You are making one big assumption here (i.e. that because they look like humans by their outer appearance, that they also have all human bodily parts under their clothing and inside of the bodily form they have assumed). The Bible never says such a thing. However, Jesus clearly tells us that angels are not conjoined in one flesh union as humans are by marriage. Thus, in the resurrection humans will be like the angels (not conjoined/one flesh union/married) and the woman who married seven brothers will not be wife to any of them (Matt. 22:23-33 and Gen. 2:24). [/QB]

Good point. If the CREATOR did not Create the Angels with the ability to have families among themselves He certainly did not do it so they could have families with humans!!

 

[BobRyan]

John Wesley

Gen 6
Verse 1
Men began to multiply upon the face of the earth - This was the effect of the blessing, Genesis 1:28, and yet man's corruption so abused this blessing, that it turned into a curse.
Verse 2
The sons of God - Those who were called by the name of the Lord, and called upon that name, married the daughters of men - Those that were profane, and strangers to God. The posterity of Seth did not keep to themselves as they ought, but intermingled with the race of Cain: they took them wives of all that they chose - They chose only by the eye: They saw that they were fair - Which was all they looked at.
http://www.studylight.org/com/wen/view.cgi?book=ge&chapter=006

Adam Clarke –

Notes on Chapter 6
Verse 1. When men began to multiply
It was not at this time that men began to multiply, but the inspired penman speaks now of a fact which had taken place long before. As there is a distinction made here between men and those called the sons of God, it is generally supposed that the immediate posterity of Cain and that of Seth are intended.

The first were mere men, such as fallen nature may produce, degenerate sons of a degenerate father, governed by the desire of the flesh, the desire of the eye, and the pride of life. The others were sons of God, not angels, as some have dreamed, but such as were, according to our Lord's doctrine, born again, born from above, John 3:3,5,6 and made children of God by the influence of the Holy Spirit, Galatians 5:6. The former were apostates from the true religion, the latter were those among whom it was preserved and cultivated.
Dr. Wall supposes the first verses of this chapter should be paraphrased thus: "When men began to multiply on the earth, the chief men took wives of all the handsome poor women they chose. There were tyrants in the earth in those days; and also after the antediluvian days powerful men had unlawful connections with the inferior women, and the children which sprang from this illicit commerce were the renowned heroes of antiquity, of whom the heathens made their gods."
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=ge&chapter=006

JFB – Jamieson Fausset Brown
2. the sons of God saw the daughters of men--By the former is meant the family of Seth, who were professedly religious; by the latter, the descendants of apostate Cain. Mixed marriages between parties of opposite principles and practice were necessarily sources of extensive corruption. The women, religious themselves, would as wives and mothers exert an influence fatal to the existence of religion in their household, and consequently the people of that later age sank to the lowest depravity.
3. flesh--utterly, hopelessly debased.
And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive--Christ, as God, had by His Spirit inspiring Enoch, Noah, and perhaps other prophets (1Pe 3:20; 2Pe 2:5; Jude 14), preached repentance to the antediluvians; but they were incorrigible.
http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.cgi?book=ge&chapter=006

 

[Gwen]

This is a most interesting discussion! But I have some questions about the fallen angels theory being sons of God.

Genesis 6:9 says, "These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."

My question concerns the phrase "perfect in his generations." Did this mean Noah was one of the few left who's bloodline wasn't contaminated with the fallen angels? I assume his sons and daughters in law had pure bloodlines, too. Is this the reason why God sent the flood--to save the bloodline so that our Savior could be born?

That makes sense to me, and I can see that this theory is possible. But here is where it gets confusing...If giants were produced by sons of God (fallen angels) having children with the daughters of men, how do we explain Goliath? He lived a long time after the flood. Was he the product of fallen angels and human women, too?

 

[BobRyan]

I think I stick with the Bible in Matt 22 about Angels NOT marrying vs those that imagine Gen 6 says Angels DO marry (but they only Marry humans in such a story) --

I will stick with Matthew Henry, Adam Clarke, John Wesley and the other excellent Bible scholars that point out that Gen 6 is about the evil of man - not of angels!!

 

[Ray Berrian]

The Matthew passage is about a man who died and through death she was widowed seven times. The question was posed to Jesus--in the resurrection which man would be united with the widow?

Jesus explains that '. . . IN THE RESURRECTION, human couples in Heaven will not have the marriage status, but will be as the angels of God in Heaven.

This did not mean that when the angels came to earth on mission for God, in the form of a man that they were without any gender.

I also believe that Jesus, our Lord, was male in gender.

Jesus only said in Matthew that 'IN THE RESURRECTION THEY NEITHER MARRY OR ARE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE, BUT ARE LIKE THE ANGELS ABOVE.'

 

[BobRyan]

The point is that "neither Marry nor are given in marriage" is in direct opposition to the Gen 6 statement that the Sons of God (always a reference to obedient beings) were taking wives!!

This is just impossible to miss.

I have to agree with Matthew Henry, Adam Clarke, John Wesley, Jamieson, Fausset and Brown.... on this one.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Sons of God are angels. This is evidenced by Job 1 and Job 2.

Sons of God married the daughters of men. Why did it not say sons of men if they were human?

Just because in heaven there is no marrying, nor giving in marriage, does not mean those that came to earth did not marry.

One more thing, if it were impossible for a heavenly being to have sexual relations with a human, then it would stand to reason that Mary could not have gotten pregnant supernaturally. We all know she did.

 

[BobRyan]

#1. Job 1 and 2 do not reference angels -

#2. In all cases "Sons of God" are those who are aligned with God - not in open rebellion.

#3. Romans 8:16 has the Holy Spirit witnessing with our spirit that we ARE the children of God

Luke 20:36
for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Always in the obedient context.

Matthew 5:9
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

The notion that the "evil angels are called sons of God" can not be supported in all of scripture. Satan may appear with them - but he is not called Lucifer OR the son of God while in rebellion against God!

Matthew Henry is right on this one folks!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

#1 - God did not have relations with Mary as you seem to think.

#2. God did not "procreate" With Mary NEITHER is Christ the procreated result of Mary being the wife of God!!!

Come on people - you have to at least stay on the Christian theme!

 

[BobRyan]

John Gill


Genesis 6:1

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply upon the face of the earth…

Either mankind in general, or rather the posterity of Cain, who were mere natural men, such as they were when born into the world, and as brought up in it, destitute of the grace of God, and of the knowledge and fear of him; and who in proportion much more multiplied than the posterity of Seth, because of the practice of polygamy, which by the example of Lamech, one of that race, might prevail among them: and daughters were born unto them;
not daughters only, but sons also, though it may be more daughters than sons, or it may denote remarkable ones, for their beauty or immodesty, or both; and chiefly this is observed for the sake of what follows.
http://www.studylight.org/com/geb/view.cgi?book=ge&chapter=006&verse=001

Genesis 6:2
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair…

Or "good" F11, not in a moral but natural sense; goodly to look upon, of a beautiful aspect; and they looked upon, and only regarded their external beauty, and lusted after them: those "sons of God" were not angels either good or bad, as many have thought, since they are incorporeal beings, and cannot be affected with fleshly lusts, or marry and be given in marriage, or generate and be generated; nor the sons of judges, magistrates, and great personages, nor they themselves, as the Targums of Onkelos and Jonathan, and so Jarchi and Aben Ezra; but this could be no crime in them, to look upon and take in marriage such persons, though they were the daughters of the meaner sort; and supposing they acted a criminal part in looking at them, and lusting after them, and committing fornication with them, and even in marrying irreligious persons; yet this could only be a partial, not an universal corruption, as is after affirmed, though such examples must indeed have great influence upon the populace; but rather this is to be understood of the posterity of Seth, who from the times of Enos, when then began to be called by the name of the Lord, (Genesis 4:25) had the title of the sons of God, in distinction from the children of men; these claimed the privilege of divine adoption, and professed to be born of God, and partakers of his grace, and pretended to worship him according to his will, so far as revealed to them, and to fear and serve and glorify him. According to the Arabic writers F12, immediately after the death of Adam the family of Seth was separated from the family of Cain; Seth took his sons and their wives to a high mountain (Hermon), on the top of which Adam was buried, and Cain and all his sons lived in the valley beneath, where Abel was slain; and they on the mountain obtained a name for holiness and purity, and were so near the angels that they could hear their voices and join their hymns with them; and they, their wives and their children, went by the common name of the sons of God: and now these were adjured, by Seth and by succeeding patriarchs, by no means to go down from the mountain and join the Cainites; but notwithstanding in the times of Jared some did go down, it seems; (See Gill on 5:20) and after that others, and at this time it became general; and being taken with the beauty of the daughters of Cain and his posterity, they did as follows: and they took them wives of all that they chose;
http://www.studylight.org/com/geb/view.cgi?book=ge&chapter=006&verse=002

 

[wopik]

anyone here believe we will be born into the family of God, and that God is reproducing Himself here on the Earth?


....that our human families are used (like a template) to illustrate how the family of God works: many members but one family.


....that what God begets is God, just as what man begets is man. There is a hierarchy in the human family, just as their is in the God family. But if your earthly father is human, you are human. If your father is God, you are God.


Perhaps God is not just the name of a person, but of a kind of being (let us make man after our likeness, kind).


We are to become God, just as we have become human. OUR ULTIMATE DESTINY. God reproducing Himself.

 

[BobRyan]

God created the angels - they are not God nor little gods.

God created Adam - he was not god nor a little god.

God fashions the "New Creation" 2Cor 5 with each soul that is saved - but we are not "little gods" in the sense of ontology - as in species. We remain human.

 

[wopik]

We remain human

we are to escape CORRUPTION and take on DIVINE NATURE (2 Peter 1:4).


".....We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him as He is. - 1 John 3:2

 

[BobRyan]

2 Peter 1 points to this life and says that in this life we are experiencing a character change via the promises of God. (Sanctification).

2Pet 1
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;
3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

The contrast is not between onotology - human nature vs God-nature, the contrast is between the sinful nature of fallen man and the sinfree perfect nature of God. The point is that in this life we are "putting to death the deeds of the flesh" and walking in the spirit - building up the inner man "For we have been given the mind of Christ" 1 Cor 2 end of chapter.

Gal 2:20 "no longer I who live but Christ that lives in me"

If you try to extend these concepts into biological terms then you are going too far!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The sons of God in Job are not human beings. This is evident in satan's showing up amongst them.

God asked satan where he came from. Satan replied from walking to and fro and up and down in the earth.

Satan came from the earth, so he was not on the earth. The sons of God had to have been heavenly beings, angels.