Soul and Spirit - Same or Different

[Marcia]

I have seen a few posts on other threads assert that soul and spirit are different, although often in the Bible, soul and spirit are used interchangeably.

I'd like to see some views on this, using scripture and, if possible, views especially from those who have researched the Hebrew and Greek words for these terms. I know there are different views.

A few scriptures supporting dichotomy include; Gen 2:7, Job 32:8, Job 33:4, Eccl 12:7, Is 10:18, and Matt 10:28. Sometimes the scriptures speak of a dichotomy of body and soul, as in Matt 6:25 and Matt 10:28, and other times of a dichotomy of body and spirit, as in Eccl 12:7, 1 Cor 5:3-5, 1 Cor 7:34. Death is referred to as giving up the soul, as in Gen 35:18, 1 Kg 17:21, Acts 15:26, and as giving up the spirit, as in Ps 31:5, Lk 23:46, Acts 7:59. The immaterial part that survives death is referred to as the soul, as in Rev 6:9, Rev 20:4 and as the spirit, as in Heb 12:23, 1 Pet 3:19. The soul communes with God in Jam 1:21 and Heb 6:19 and the spirit communes with God in Rom 8:16 and 1 Cor 6:20. 2 Cor 7:1 speaks of sin affecting flesh and spirit and Eph 2:3 speaks of sin affecting flesh and mind. The dichotomy present in the scriptures is obvious, but so is the interchangeable use of soul and spirit.
http://www.the-highway.com/tricho-charis_Brown.html

 

[Marcia]

More from the above link, which discusses this topic:

When a Charismatic reads 1 Cor 14:14, “my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful,” he reads this to mean that his spirit utters words which is own mind does not understand. Based on a trichotomy or tri-partite view of man, he claims that his spirit speaks a heavenly language that bypasses the mental understanding of his soul. However, a careful study of the scriptures concerning spirit and soul reveals that the Bible does not teach such a concept. This concept of trichotomy is rooted in Greek philosophy, not Biblical doctrine. Although common to Gnosticism and other mystery religions, the Bible knows no such Charismatic concept of edification apart from understanding. Indeed the Bible often uses spirit and soul interchangeably. Scriptures showing thought and cognitive understanding in one’s spirit are inescapable. See Matt 26:41, Mk 2:8, Lk 1:46-47, Acts 17:16, 1 Cor 2:11, 1 Pet 3:3-5.

 

[Snitzelhoff]

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."--Hebrews 4:12

A dichotomy between spirit and soul is Scriptural, yet so is a unity so tight that only the Word is sharp enough to split it. Paul wrote:

"...and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."--I Thessalonians 5:23

That verse, like the one in Hebrews, differentiates between soul and spirit. However, it must be understood that the two can be used basically interchangably as they typically work together as a unit.

Michael

 

[Marcia]

I don't think Heb. 4.12 means soul and spirit are different. I think it is hyperbole to show how deep God's word can penetrate.

Man is material + immaterial. How can the immaterial be divided up? When you die, and your immaterial self goes to be with Christ, is there some kind of difference then between the soul and spirit?

I read an article that stated that soul and spirit may be used to describe different functions of the immaterial part of man but those terms do not mean they are actually different parts of the immaterial part of man. I think I agree with that.

 

[donnA]

I don't know if they are or not, I've often wondered. Have you looked up those verses that say soul and spirit and looked the original words used for soul and spirit in those particular verses? Would be interesting.

 

[SAMPLEWOW]

I have know scripture to back up what I believe but I have always believed that soul and spirit were the same .

 

[Snitzelhoff]

Originally posted by Marcia:
I don't think Heb. 4.12 means soul and spirit are different. I think it is hyperbole to show how deep God's word can penetrate.

Man is material + immaterial. How can the immaterial be divided up? When you die, and your immaterial self goes to be with Christ, is there some kind of difference then between the soul and spirit?

I read an article that stated that soul and spirit may be used to describe different functions of the immaterial part of man but those terms do not mean they are actually different parts of the immaterial part of man. I think I agree with that.

Is the immaterial indivisible? Can there be no difference between them simply because there is no physical form to them? Are Father, Son, and Spirit not diverse in Person, while unified in essence, Being, and purpose? In the same way, soul and spirit are diverse, yet form a union so tight that only the Word can pierce it.

Furthermore, the passage also compares the piercing power of the Word to "joint and marrow." While they form a nearly inseparable unit, surely you don't think joints and marrow refer to the same thing? Just different parts of the whole. Why, if joint and marrow are not the same, should soul and spirit be, when both are used in that context?

In the salutation from Paul in I Thessalonians, he indicates that for God to sanctify one wholly, it requires keeping your body, soul, and spirit. In other words, it implies that a whole person consists of body, soul, and spirit.

There is much speculation as to the exact nature of the differences between soul and spirit, but their union is close enough that the terms can be used interchangeably. However, that does not make them the same.

As to the article to which you referred, if soul and spirit are different functions of the same thing, what is the name of the thing that possesses those attributes? Walking and breathing are functions of my body. My body is the thing that possesses those attributes.

Michael

 

[Michael Hobbs]

The soul is definitely different than the spirit. Look at these verses:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I believe this is what Paul was alluding to in Romans 7. I can sin with my flesh and I can sin with my mind (spirit) but my soul, which is saved, cannot sin because it is sealed by the blood of Christ.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by donnA:
I don't know if they are or not, I've often wondered. Have you looked up those verses that say soul and spirit and looked the original words used for soul and spirit in those particular verses? Would be interesting.

I read a couple of articles that show in the NT that the Greek words translated as soul and spirit are often the same.

I need to look them up and post that info but not sure I can do this now.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Michael Hobbs:
The soul is definitely different than the spirit. Look at these verses:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I believe this is what Paul was alluding to in Romans 7. I can sin with my flesh and I can sin with my mind (spirit) but my soul, which is saved, cannot sin because it is sealed by the blood of Christ.

I think this just makes it more complicated.

It raises questions like this:
Does the soul ever sin and how does it sin? What part of us is sinning when we sin? Is your soul saved but not your spirit?

 

[Marcia]

SOUL (psuche):
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a12) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death....

SPIRIT (pneuma)
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.(14)

Thus in Greek "soul" refers to the animating principle which feels, desires, and can attain everlasting life with God. And "spirit" is also the animating principle which feels, thinks, and decides. And notice once again, the use of the word soul to define spirit (twice in fact: 2b,3b). Only #4 for spirit gives so much as a hint the two might be distinct.

Summing up, overall the definitions of the English words and lexical entries for the Hebrew and Greek words indicate that "soul" and "spirit" are interchangeable terms, with common characteristics ascribed to both.
http://www.dtl.org/dtl/treatise/soul-spirit-1.htm

 

[Paul of Eugene]

I view a human as a blending of flesh and spirit
I view a soul as the whole, putting the two together. Equivalent to "self".

Souls can be saved from physical danger as well as spiritual danger.

 

[Marcia]

This is on Heb 4.12:

The marrow is inside of the bone.(18) Meanwhile, the joint is, "A point of articulation between two or more bones, especially such a connection that allows motion."(19)

So the two are not directly connected so they cannot be divided in any literal sense. So the author cannot be using dividing "joints and marrow" as an illustration of dividing the soul and spirit.

John Gill elaborates further on this verse:
… the apostle's meaning seems to be this, that whereas the soul and spirit are invisible, and the joints and marrow are covered and hid; so sharp and quick sighted, and so penetrating is the divine Word, that it reaches the most secret and hidden things of men: and this sense is confirmed by what follows.

"and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" - Christ knows what is in man; he is the searcher of the hearts, and the trier of the reins of the children of men; and this will be more apparent at the last day, when he will make manifest the counsels of the heart, and will critically inquire, and accurately judge of them.(20)

So by looking at the context (namely, the rest of the verse), it is seen that the point of Hebrews 4:12 is not to teach some kind of anthropology. Rather, the intent of the verse is to emphasize the power of God's Word and its ability to reach into even our unseen parts.

Reverend Kim Riddlebarger arrives at a similar conclusion; but he approaches the verse from a different angle:
In Hebrews 4:12, is its argued that the author makes a clear division between soul and spirit, implying that they cannot be synonymous. But John Murray contends that the verb used here - translated as "dividing" in the NIV - is never used elsewhere in Scripture in the sense of distinguishing between two different things, but is always used when distributing and dividing up the various aspects of the same thing (see Heb 2:4; Lk 11:17-18; Mt 27:35; Jn 19:24).(21)
http://www.dtl.org/dtl/treatise/soul-spirit-2.htm

 

[Grasshopper]

Different.

 

[Artimaeus]

I do not have a firm conviction but I do have a pretty strong preference in this instance. I believe man to be a three part being and it takes all three parts to be whole. Just as the Trinity is a very difficult concept to explain but true nonetheless. I believe the threefold nature of man is also difficult to explain.

Adam's spirit "died" when he sinned and mankind ceased to be a whole three part being. Even after salvation when the spirit is regenerated the soul (still suffering the ravages of the curse) isn't but continues toward maturity and seeking to be conformed to the image of Christ. The body, of course, is a lost cause (Looking at mine I am firmly convinced of this)

When we get to heaven our new glorified bodies, our souls completely conformed to the image of Christ, and our already regenerated spirit will once again be the whole person that God intended us to be.

My sliver of uncertainty lies in a description of spirit that takes into account some of the seeming inconsistencies of the use of spirit and soul in the English translations and the apparent lack of agreement of the Greek and Hebrew definitions by our illustrious scholars.