Soul and Spirit...

[skypair]

...

In order to answer as many posts as possible from my thread "WE might as well get this out in the open..." I offer this new thread giving Heb 4:12 as my proof --

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,...

God's Word says the soul and spirit can be divided - separated. Those believers who are of a mind/spirit to deny this have basically and willfully denied what scripture says that the word of God does in a person's life!

AND they have illustrated it by their testimony! Their souls, God being on the throne, aver the truth of a distinct soul and a spirit ("God said it - I believe it - that settles it" is usually their mantra) while their wills/spirits openly disavow it!

For what purpose do their wills, their spirits, disavow it. I certainly would not suggest so that they might be found sinners or unlearned. It appears that they choose this for their will because it is more pleasing to men's doctrines, John 12:43 -- "For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God."

Don't go rending you robes or nothing. raying: It's like Christ said -- "They know not what they do." Let's study it with scripture over there. Let's stop dissing each other as if neither knows what they are talking about. And let's pray for wisdom. raying:

skypair

 

[Pastor Larry]

But what does that mean? This, and 1 thess 5:23, are the only passages in Scripture that give any indication of a division between soul and spirit. And it is why I have some hesitation in my position. Having said that, neither this verse nor 1 Thess 5:23, tell us what that difference is, and the rest of Scripture uses the term "soul" interchangeably in different ways.

Probably, Heb 4:12 uses the image to indicate that the Bible goes to the very center of man's being ... It addresses who he really is at the core. 1 Thess 5:23 addresses the fact that God saves the totality of man.

 

[rsr]

I can't see how Hebrews 4:12 is definitive.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Here are two objects being divided: "soul and spirit" and "joints and marrow." Both joints and marrow are parts of the body; parallel construction would seem to indicate that soul and spirit are part of one entity, just as are joints and marrow.

 

[skypair]

But what does that mean? This, and 1 thess 5:23, are the only passages in Scripture that give any indication of a division between soul and spirit. And it is why I have some hesitation in my position. Having said that, neither this verse nor 1 Thess 5:23, tell us what that difference is, and the rest of Scripture uses the term "soul" interchangeably in different ways.

Probably, Heb 4:12 uses the image to indicate that the Bible goes to the very center of man's being ... It addresses who he really is at the core. 1 Thess 5:23 addresses the fact that God saves the totality of man.

Larry, we all got some work to do. First we got to read -- then we got to discern (as I have been trying to do). Do you think it is important that we save those we are trying to sanctify? those who walk into our churches and seem to "hear" but God only knows, LITERALLY, whether they are saved/elect?

skypair

 

[skypair]

I can't see how Hebrews 4:12 is definitive.



Here are two objects being divided: "soul and spirit" and "joints and marrow." Both joints and marrow are parts of the body; parallel construction would seem to indicate that soul and spirit are part of one entity, just as are joints and marrow.

You're equivocating, rsr. There are actually 3 objects - you missed "thoughts and intents of the heart." That shows me you made a reflexive response rather than a studied one.

You are right in that all suggest parts of one entity -- but they're DISTINCTIVE, DISTINGUISHABLE parts, right?

skypair

 

[Pastor Larry]

Larry, we all got some work to do. First we got to read -- then we got to discern (as I have been trying to do). Do you think it is important that we save those we are trying to sanctify? those who walk into our churches and seem to "hear" but God only knows, LITERALLY, whether they are saved/elect?

I think it is important that we be sancitifed, not that we sanctify someone. But I don't think this addresses that issue. Both dichotomists and trichotomists agree on that.

they're DISTINCTIVE, DISTINGUISHABLE parts, right?

I don't think so.

 

[skypair]

I think it is important that we be sancitifed, not that we sanctify someone. But I don't think this addresses that issue. Both dichotomists and trichotomists agree on that.

What's important is that we SAVE someone so they can be sanctified or help sanctify someone else, Lar. Unless you do, you're treating the symptoms (weak spirit) rather than healing the disease (lost soul).

I don't think so [that soul and spirit are DISTINCT and DISTINGUISHABLE].

So you don't believe Heb 4:12. Well, that's easy enough to ignore, isn't it? Why don't we say the word of God is not able to save your souls either even though Jas 1:21 says -- "...and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." Sound fair? Or put our own "spin" on it by saying it can save your "immortal being" when what it really says is "save your souls?"

Like Rush Limbaugh used to say -- "Only problem is that words have MEANING."

skypair

 

[webdog]

I can't see how Hebrews 4:12 is definitive.



Here are two objects being divided: "soul and spirit" and "joints and marrow." Both joints and marrow are parts of the body; parallel construction would seem to indicate that soul and spirit are part of one entity, just as are joints and marrow.

i believe this is the correct exegesis of the text. Soul and Spirit are immaterial, and joints and marrow are material. The original text doesn't have "and", so it could read soul / spirit from joints / marrow.