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Soul Winning-
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
Proverbs 11:30 (Young's Literal Translation)
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
30 The fruit of the righteous [is] a tree of life, And whoso is taking souls [is] wise.
The word he that winneth souls is wise...is actually he that taketh souls....how do you go about taking a soul???
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
30 The fruit of the righteous [is] a tree of life, And whoso is taking souls [is] wise.
The word he that winneth souls is wise...is actually he that taketh souls....how do you go about taking a soul???
:laugh:They have a heart for souls....but abandon whole portions of scripture that they believe to be "hard things". We need to trust God and use wisdom in speaking the truth in love.
:wavey::wavey: I believe every revealed truth can be presented in a God glorifying way. or God would not have given it to us.
I believe we sin greatly if we do not employ every lawful means at our disposal to win .or take souls.We know that it is Jesus who really takes them, but he has ordained to use the word preached by God ordained ministers and his church to spread worldwide to do it.
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convicted1
Guest
All any of us can do is present the word to the lost, set back, and watch God work in their hearts. As a preacher, all I can do is preach the word, under the inspiration of the Spirit, that is, and let the seed take root in the lost's heart. It takes God to give the increase.
SolaSaint
Well-Known Member
AMEN brother, but so many think they have to add to the gospel by adding flare and entertainment. Sadly many today make the gospel into a theraputic matter that centers on ME. Oh how that sells.
quantumfaith
Active Member
What exactly "seeker" friendly? I would welcome ANY and ALL who are seeking.
There is a seeking that is fleshly, and there is a seeking that is Spiritual...
Jesus resisted and rejected carnal seeking in the flesh,and redirected them to Spiritual food.
Solasaint;
A hundred years ago, liberals abandoned the word for the social gospel.Jesus promised to meet the needs of those who trust in him.
It should not be an either or situation....The kingdom deals with both spiritual and physical matters and we want to be open to the lost coming into the assembly. Just we do not have to be worldly to attract the world.
To be effective we all need to perhaps do more than what we do on a daily basis. I am not certain we keep a biblical perspective on this.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Romans 11:14
in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.
1 Corinthians 9:22
To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.
James 5:20
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
Winneth is a better translation and you have the right to accept the translation that you like the best or to learn all what a word means and get a better understanding of the word, but we win them by Christ working through us not us working through Him.
in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.
1 Corinthians 9:22
To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.
James 5:20
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
Winneth is a better translation and you have the right to accept the translation that you like the best or to learn all what a word means and get a better understanding of the word, but we win them by Christ working through us not us working through Him.
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quantumfaith
Active Member
You pontificated eloquently, but I am still unclear about what "seeker friendly" really means. Are you telling me that the definition is in the eye of the beholder. I attend a church associated with North Point ministries in Atlanta pastored by Andy Stanley. I teach a class (Starting Point) for those interested in knowing the major themes and message in scripture....are those "seekers"?
Out of curiosity, Dave how many in your church would you say are over 50 ?
SolaSaint
Well-Known Member
Maybe I should stop using "Seeker Friendly" for I can see it can be used in a good light. Just as the word "Fundamentalism" and be used in a good way as well as derogatory. I use "Seeker friendly" in a derogatory manner. What I meant from the OP is a ministry failing to present the gospel and instead end up entertaining the lost with emotional or exciting stories. We see it all the time from the Rick Warren's and Joel Osteen's of the world.
Don't get confused about the terminology...it means little or nothing:
The term "seeker friendly" or, as I always hear it: "Seeker-sensitive" essentially only means churches who try to create an atmosphere which they would consider to be comfortable and non-confrontational to the lost or "un-saved"...
In practice, it means post-modern music styles and enangelistic dramas and other forms of communication which they believe to be more palatable to the "lost" and what-not...
Ironically...the only churches I have ever been to who would describe themselves as "seeker-sensitive" were Presbyterian churches or their Calvinist spin-offs....go figure...
As an Arminian...I tried to tell them that "There is none that 'seeketh'..." but, some Calvinists didn't want to hear it.
It isn't relegated to that Theology by any means...but, only from MY experience...that's where I hear the term most commonly bantered.
It isn't anything official....It's just a phrase used by churches which tend to appeal to the mind-set of the "post-modernist" I guess. They do so via their choice of medium and message framing. which is the key I think.
It isn't a strictly Theological position per se.
QF,
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/seekersensitive_conservatism_1.html
DeWaay's basic conclusion is this: The purpose-driven movement begins with the premise that the only way to attract non-Christians to church is by offering to meet their felt needs, rather than their real need for salvation through Christ. If a non-Christian "seeker" visits a church where he hears the traditional Gospel message that he is a lost sinner in need of a salvation that can only come from personal repentance and trust in the atoning death of Christ, he will be repelled by the challenging message, and will not return. To prevent this failure, so the theory goes, a church must conduct market research into what people in its area want, and then find a way to give these seekers what they want.
One result is that the deep and challenging teachings of traditional Christianity must never be presented in the Sunday morning worship service that has traditionally been the cornerstone of Christian fellowship. Not only will non-Christian seekers probably not want to hear that God regards them as sinners, but they will have no interest in what Warren (and theological liberals) dismissively call "doctrine," that is, the actual content of the religion preached by Christ and the Apostles. The result is a Christianity that retains the rituals and some of the language of traditional Protestant Christianity, but is effectively stripped of its content.
In a typical Sunday morning worship service at a typical seeker-sensitive church, attendees experience the following:
Professionally-produced "praise music" that expresses emotions, but contains little theology, that is, little articulation of sometimes-difficult religious truths.
A sermon that emphasizes how faith in God can make your life better, but does not mention the troubling idea that God is angry with sinners, and demands repentance and faith in Jesus in order for His wrath to be averted.
A liturgy (form of worship) that embodies current standards of popular decorum and entertainment rather than pointing people to a transcendent God.
Children's programs that entertain (albeit in a quasi-Christian mode) rather than push the youth to learn challenging doctrines.
What the purpose-driven movement offers, in short, is a religious product for religious consumers, people who want a certain amount of religiosity in their lives, but who don't want to be troubled by the full measure of Christianity. Since man is an inherently religious being, and since Christianity (at least in name) still has the respect of most Americans, it is to be expected that a Christianity designed to please will be successful. But a Christianity designed to please will not be faithful to the actual teachings of Christ and the Apostles, i.e., the ones who have the authority to say what Christianity really is.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/seekersensitive_conservatism_1.html
DeWaay's basic conclusion is this: The purpose-driven movement begins with the premise that the only way to attract non-Christians to church is by offering to meet their felt needs, rather than their real need for salvation through Christ. If a non-Christian "seeker" visits a church where he hears the traditional Gospel message that he is a lost sinner in need of a salvation that can only come from personal repentance and trust in the atoning death of Christ, he will be repelled by the challenging message, and will not return. To prevent this failure, so the theory goes, a church must conduct market research into what people in its area want, and then find a way to give these seekers what they want.
One result is that the deep and challenging teachings of traditional Christianity must never be presented in the Sunday morning worship service that has traditionally been the cornerstone of Christian fellowship. Not only will non-Christian seekers probably not want to hear that God regards them as sinners, but they will have no interest in what Warren (and theological liberals) dismissively call "doctrine," that is, the actual content of the religion preached by Christ and the Apostles. The result is a Christianity that retains the rituals and some of the language of traditional Protestant Christianity, but is effectively stripped of its content.
In a typical Sunday morning worship service at a typical seeker-sensitive church, attendees experience the following:
Professionally-produced "praise music" that expresses emotions, but contains little theology, that is, little articulation of sometimes-difficult religious truths.
A sermon that emphasizes how faith in God can make your life better, but does not mention the troubling idea that God is angry with sinners, and demands repentance and faith in Jesus in order for His wrath to be averted.
A liturgy (form of worship) that embodies current standards of popular decorum and entertainment rather than pointing people to a transcendent God.
Children's programs that entertain (albeit in a quasi-Christian mode) rather than push the youth to learn challenging doctrines.
What the purpose-driven movement offers, in short, is a religious product for religious consumers, people who want a certain amount of religiosity in their lives, but who don't want to be troubled by the full measure of Christianity. Since man is an inherently religious being, and since Christianity (at least in name) still has the respect of most Americans, it is to be expected that a Christianity designed to please will be successful. But a Christianity designed to please will not be faithful to the actual teachings of Christ and the Apostles, i.e., the ones who have the authority to say what Christianity really is.
HeirofSalvation
As an Arminian...I tried to tell them that "There is none that 'seeketh'..." but, some Calvinists didn't want to hear it.
:laugh::laugh::thumbs:
As an Arminian...I tried to tell them that "There is none that 'seeketh'..." but, some Calvinists didn't want to hear it.
:laugh::laugh::thumbs:
quantumfaith
I am not certain what you mean.I gave a link that should explain seeker friendly as it has come to be known.
Others have coined this term...I heard of it concerning Rick Warren as Sola saint has spoken of.
Is starting point a booklet? Do you prepare the lessons or is it already prepared?
Are the people in your class, new members or visitors?
What are the major themes you address?
This might determine if you have seekers, or disciples.
I am not certain what you mean.I gave a link that should explain seeker friendly as it has come to be known.
Others have coined this term...I heard of it concerning Rick Warren as Sola saint has spoken of.
Is starting point a booklet? Do you prepare the lessons or is it already prepared?
Are the people in your class, new members or visitors?
What are the major themes you address?
This might determine if you have seekers, or disciples.
Seriously....My first intro to a "seeker-sensitive" church (and they identified themselves as such, so, their words not mine)...was a dyed-in-the-wool 5-point Presbyterian Church......Where was I to begin?? :tongue3:
I tried to explain to them that there was no such being as a "seeker"...but they didn't get it.....who knows?
Icon's reference puts it succinctly here:
YUP...it's crap. The "seeker-friendly" or "seeker-sensitive" (as they say here in Florida) is garboggio.
YUP...it's crap. The "seeker-friendly" or "seeker-sensitive" (as they say here in Florida) is garboggio.
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psalms109:31
Active Member
I went to a church that wanted their cake and eat it to.
They had the adult service with the organ, song books, the old fashion service. I didn't go to that one, I have been to those I love those to.
I went to the contemporary service,the big band and all a concert. It seems it was to draw the youth. The main message was that they were chosen in the womb, I felt like they were using that as the gospel. That was the last time i went there. I didn't mind the concert at all
They had the adult service with the organ, song books, the old fashion service. I didn't go to that one, I have been to those I love those to.
I went to the contemporary service,the big band and all a concert. It seems it was to draw the youth. The main message was that they were chosen in the womb, I felt like they were using that as the gospel. That was the last time i went there. I didn't mind the concert at all
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Willis,
How about at the hospital? Do you get many opportunities to present saving truth?