Soul Winning-

[Iconoclast]

Romans 11:14
in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

1 Corinthians 9:22
To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.

James 5:20
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

:wavey:Good verses:thumbsup:

 

[psalms109:31]

Romans 11:14
in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

1 Corinthians 9:22
To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.

James 5:20
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

:wavey:Good verses:thumbsup:

Paul did things to win souls not take them, a branch Christ was, am, and is using well.

 

[convicted1]

Willis,

How about at the hospital? Do you get many opportunities to present saving truth?

This is a true story, and it's not about me glorying in myself, but rather, glorying in what God does through me:


My father-in-law pastors a church, and one of it's members was sick where I work at....in fact, she passed away approx 2 weeks ago there. Now, her two sons, and one she raised(her brother's son....all his family died from a gas leak, and he was the only one to survive), all are pastors of a church. She was a godly woman who went to receive her reward....I truly believe that. One night I went up to check on her, because she was approaching the river, and was having difficulty breathing. I held prayer with her, and some of her family. In fact, we had prayer at least two times(different nights), and maybe three....can't exactly remember.


After she died, my father-in-law, mother-in-law, and I went to the funeral home to visit her....father-in-law's church is kinda small, close to the road, with very little parking. Her sons had a close friend(Ray) there at the funeral home that night. What I am about to tell you Ray told me, really touched me.......I almost cried when he told me. One of her sons(Jesse) had a son of his own there(they call him "Little" Jesse) the last night I had prayer with her/them. The son's friend(Ray) told me that "Little" Jesse told him that he didn't have to be around me long to know I was a christian.....and "Little" Jesse is lost. I want God to use me to get through to him. Without God working with "Little" Jesse, nothing I say will hit home. It takes God drawing him, and with a preacher preaching His Word, to save "Little" Jesse. You see Brother Icon, it's not about me, but Him. It's not about me, but He who works through me. Anything I do, I want none of the glory. Without Him, I am less than nothing. We are reminded in His Word, "Let your light so shine among men, that others may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." That's all I want to do. I want to proclaim what Jesus does for those who put their trust in Him. It's all about this man named Jesus. How sweet it is to be His.

 

[Iconoclast]

Paul did things to win souls not take them, a branch Christ was, am, and is using well.

Targum: “The fruits of righteous men are a tree of life; and he who takes souls
is wisdom” or a variation on verse 30b, “and the one who takes (or “the taking
of ”) souls is pleasant.”16
Waltke seems to combine several ideas when he writes, “The life-giving
fruit of the righteous is so attractive that it turns people aside to eat from it,
and so [the righteous and wise man] ‘takes away lives’ from death.”49 His use
of “attractive” and the eating of the fruit of righteous do well to bring out the
benefit that others besides the “righteous one” receive. However, there is no
verbal link to these terms. So, either he is inferring them from the imagery
of the text, or he gets them from jql. However, Waltke explicitly defines jql
as “to take away” or remove people from death. This he calls “an intentional
irony.”50 Presumably he means that since the phrase “take life” normally
means “to kill,” but “wise” precludes such a meaning, the concept of death
is still in the mind of the reader and Waltke places that concept outside the
idiom as something avoided. He concludes by saying that “the righteous both
produce eternal life and by their attractiveness save others from [death


It has the idea of taking or capturing the soul from death.

 

[Iconoclast]

Willis

It's not about me, but He who works through me. Anything I do, I want none of the glory. Without Him, I am less than nothing. We are reminded in His Word, "Let your light so shine among men, that others may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." That's all I want to do. I want to proclaim what Jesus does for those who put their trust in Him. It's all about this man named Jesus. How sweet it is to be His.

Nice Willis!

 

[convicted1]

Willis


Nice Willis!

Brother Icon, I heard this somewhere before, "It's not about the messenger, but about the message."

I am an unprofittable servant because I am only doing what I am commanded to do.


Apostle Paul, who was no where near God's league, said, "Without God I am nothing, yea, less than nothing." And I, not being anywhere near Apostle Paul's league, what does that make me? A very sobering thought to me.

 

[Bob Alkire]

Romans 11:14
in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

1 Corinthians 9:22
To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.

James 5:20
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Winneth is a better translation and you have the right to accept the translation that you like the best or to learn all what a word means and get a better understanding of the word, but we win them by Christ working through us not us working through Him.

I agree 100% with you.

 

[quantumfaith]

Out of curiosity, Dave how many in your church would you say are over 50 ?

I know we have many "senior citizens" but I guess approximately 5-10%.

 

[quantumfaith]

Don't get confused about the terminology...it means little or nothing:
The term "seeker friendly" or, as I always hear it: "Seeker-sensitive" essentially only means churches who try to create an atmosphere which they would consider to be comfortable and non-confrontational to the lost or "un-saved"...

In practice, it means post-modern music styles and enangelistic dramas and other forms of communication which they believe to be more palatable to the "lost" and what-not...

Ironically...the only churches I have ever been to who would describe themselves as "seeker-sensitive" were Presbyterian churches or their Calvinist spin-offs....go figure...

As an Arminian...I tried to tell them that "There is none that 'seeketh'..." but, some Calvinists didn't want to hear it.

It isn't relegated to that Theology by any means...but, only from MY experience...that's where I hear the term most commonly bantered.

It isn't anything official....It's just a phrase used by churches which tend to appeal to the mind-set of the "post-modernist" I guess. They do so via their choice of medium and message framing. which is the key I think.
It isn't a strictly Theological position per se.

Thanks HOS, I attend a "contemp church", we do much to "market interest" in the message of the Gospel. The essence of why our church was created was to intentionally create environments that "unchurched" people find appealing and interesting. We are somewhat successful in that endeavor....as in my local congregation, we have many to attend that would not consider entering any of the other churches in my area. We have contemp music...and it is loud. We have a casual dress style. We baptize OFTEN....now I do realize...just baptizing is anecdotal but that is true for a church of any form.

I do realize the "seeker" terminology is usually (around here) is intentionally pejorative in nature. That is why I would press for a specific definition of such. It seems as though "seeker" chuches are classified as such because they have different worship formats.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Thanks HOS, I attend a "contemp church", we do much to "market interest" in the message of the Gospel. The essence of why our church was created was to intentionally create environments that "unchurched" people find appealing and interesting. We are somewhat successful in that endeavor....as in my local congregation, we have many to attend that would not consider entering any of the other churches in my area. We have contemp music...and it is loud. We have a casual dress style. We baptize OFTEN....now I do realize...just baptizing is anecdotal but that is true for a church of any form.

I do realize the "seeker" terminology is usually (around here) is intentionally pejorative in nature. That is why I would press for a specific definition of such. It seems as though "seeker" chuches are classified as such because they have different worship formats.

YUP...that about sums it up...although, in my (limited) experience, churches usually identify THEMSELVES as being "seeker-friendly" or what-not. I haven't seen traditionalists use the label and attach it to other churches. Often they will call themselves "seeker-friendly" or "seeker-sensitive". It's a style statement. It usually centers around formats as you stated:
1.) Use of dramas
2.) An appreciation for "interpretive dance" perhaps
3.) Modern worship style music
4.) No -one wears coats and ties including the pastoral staff
5.) Chairs in lieu of pews most likely
6.) Church is in a strip-mall and not it's own property
7.) Sermons are likely to regularly focus on "practical application for real life"
8.) building looks like a grocery store on the outside and a theatre on the inside
All that jazz

None of these properties are inherently wrong or "bad" in and of themselves. Many traditionalists object to what might be thought of as an undue focus on the "seeker-attraction" to the detriment of the other tasks the church is called to accomplish....A traditionalist might think the "seeker-friendly" churches are making "converts" but not "disciples"...
It isn't a hard-fast line that is drawn. Does your church identify itself as "seeker-friendly"? likely, traditionalists may object to their M.O. in some ways.

 

[psalms109:31]

Exodus 19 :
3 Then Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain and said, “This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: 4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you[Or possession, for the whole earth is mine. 6 You] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

Exodus 12:48
“A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the Lord’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it.

Leviticus 19:34
The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.

Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Jeremiah 31:3
The Lord appeared to him from afar, saying, “I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore I have drawn you with lovingkindness.

As long as we don't go past those who tell us what our itching ears want to hear we will never go to areas in which they do not want to take us.

God does soul winning by His word, the word He uses to draw us with loving kindness.

In my earthly mothers womb I was chosen for destruction, who can save me from this body of death praise be to Jesus.

When God drawn me to His Son by His lovingkindness, and came to Him my new mothers womb. We get born again through the enduring word of God.
There is where He is making me into a new creation, where i am being born again. God has not chosen the old man before the foundation of the world but the new man in Christ.

This same thing goes to those whom who were looking forward to the one to come who would crush the serpents head, the work of the devil.

John 15:
Jesus Is the Vine—Followers Are Branches

15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He [Lit cleans; used to describe pruning]prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already [I.e. pruned like a branch]clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit [Lit from]of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

Romans 11:
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

 

[quantumfaith]

quantumfaith



I am not certain what you mean.I gave a link that should explain seeker friendly as it has come to be known.



Others have coined this term...I heard of it concerning Rick Warren as Sola saint has spoken of.





Is starting point a booklet? Do you prepare the lessons or is it already prepared?

Are the people in your class, new members or visitors?

What are the major themes you address?

This might determine if you have seekers, or disciples.

The "curriculum" is prepared by Norht Point. The themes addressed are:
Find Your Place in the Story

Welcome to Starting Point---a journey of discovering the broad arch of God’s story and where you fit into the narrative. Whether you are new to the Christian faith, simply curious about it, or reexamining it after time away from church, you’ll appreciate the accepting, conversational, small group environment. Come as you are, be who you are, and build enriching connections with fellow travelers as you explore who God is and what Christianity is really about.

Starting Point is a natural, enjoyable, and potentially life-changing experience.
Each of the ten sessions consists of three important parts:

First, selecting one of the five CDs that come with this Conversation Guide, you’ll listen to a teaching by Andy Stanley.
Second, you’ll use this guidebook to help you reflect, and to journal your thoughts on how what you’re discovering connects with your life---with who you are, how you think, what you believe…with the things that matter most to you.

Finally, in your weekly group meeting, you’ll have the opportunity to share your thoughts and experiences with fellow travelers in a supportive environment that is designed to enhance sharing and connection.

From Creation across history and into the future---from the book of Genesis to the book of Revelation---God’s story is a story of relationship, and your name is in it. Welcome to the journey of finding out how the story started…where it ends…and how God’s story and your story unite.

 

[Iconoclast]

The "curriculum" is prepared by Norht Point. The themes addressed are:
Find Your Place in the Story

Welcome to Starting Point---a journey of discovering the broad arch of God’s story and where you fit into the narrative. Whether you are new to the Christian faith, simply curious about it, or reexamining it after time away from church, you’ll appreciate the accepting, conversational, small group environment. Come as you are, be who you are, and build enriching connections with fellow travelers as you explore who God is and what Christianity is really about.

Starting Point is a natural, enjoyable, and potentially life-changing experience.
Each of the ten sessions consists of three important parts:

First, selecting one of the five CDs that come with this Conversation Guide, you’ll listen to a teaching by Andy Stanley.
Second, you’ll use this guidebook to help you reflect, and to journal your thoughts on how what you’re discovering connects with your life---with who you are, how you think, what you believe…with the things that matter most to you.

Finally, in your weekly group meeting, you’ll have the opportunity to share your thoughts and experiences with fellow travelers in a supportive environment that is designed to enhance sharing and connection.

From Creation across history and into the future---from the book of Genesis to the book of Revelation---God’s story is a story of relationship, and your name is in it. Welcome to the journey of finding out how the story started…where it ends…and how God’s story and your story unite.

Thanks for the info QF. Do you get alot of follow up opportunities.What do you find mist challenging about it?

 

[quantumfaith]

Thanks for the info QF. Do you get alot of follow up opportunities.What do you find mist challenging about it?

I have been a "co-teacher" of the class for 2 years now. We run it twice a year and usually have a group of 15-20. I have encountered the full spectrum....from some who "grew up" in church but departed for decades...to those who have NEVER been exposed to the church or the message of the Gospel. I have seen several changed lives coupled with professions of faith followed in baptism. It is not a "theology" class, something I have to be careful about, more like God and Bible 101.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I know we have many "senior citizens" but I guess approximately 5-10%.

OK then, are they comfortable in that environment....ie dominated by by much younger associates?

 

[Iconoclast]

I have been a "co-teacher" of the class for 2 years now. We run it twice a year and usually have a group of 15-20. I have encountered the full spectrum....from some who "grew up" in church but departed for decades...to those who have NEVER been exposed to the church or the message of the Gospel. I have seen several changed lives coupled with professions of faith followed in baptism. It is not a "theology" class, something I have to be careful about, more like God and Bible 101.

:thumbsup::wavey::thumbsup:

From the OP sermon-

You preach, brethren, with this object, that men may quit their sins, and fly to Christ for pardon, that by His blessed Spirit they may be renovated, and become as much in love with everything that is holy as they are now in love with everything that is sinful. You aim at a radical cure; the axe is laid at the root of the trees; the amendment of the old nature would not content you, but you seek for the imparting, by a divine power, of a new nature, that those who gather round you in the streets may live unto God.

 

[quantumfaith]

OK then, are they comfortable in that environment....ie dominated by by much younger associates?

I doubt very seriously that they would be attending if they were not comfortable with "how we do church". I am a "senior" , many of the seniors serve in the various environments of the church.