SOULS DIE

[standingfirminChrist]

Originally posted by DHK:
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (KJV)

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (ASV)

Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are both the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for the ages of ages. (Darby)

Revelation 20:10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (WEB)

Revelation 20:10 and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night--to the ages of the ages. (Young's)

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Wopik says:
In the KJV, you will notice that the word "are" is in italics. This means the word was supplied by the translators and is not in the original Greek.

In light of all the different versions quoted above, does Wopik have his own translation that differs for some strange reason from all other translations?
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]DHK,

Yes. He took the verse and although he said the are was added by translators and did not belong, he added his own word in the place of 'are.' His word is the word, 'were.'

Making it so the finality of hell is not torment for ever and ever is changed to burned to ashes and no longer exists.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

if the wicked are burned to ashes in the lake of fire as you claim, the only way the righteous can tread their ashes under the soles of their feet is if the righteous are in that lake of fire too.

Not gonna happen.

The wicked will spend eternity in torment just as my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ proclaimed. Else, He is made to be a liar.

 

[wopik]

God promises to all people LIFE or DEATH, not LIFE or LIFE.

 

[wopik]

if the wicked are burned to ashes in the lake of fire as you claim, the only way the righteous can tread their ashes under the soles of their feet is if the righteous are in that lake of fire too.

AS I CLAIM?


Malachi
4:3

And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[wopik]

The wicked will spend eternity in torment

NO SIR RE


Malachi
4:1


For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Greek word for punishment:

kolasiV kolasis kol'-as-is

from 2849; penal infliction:--punishment, torment.

There is no torment after one is completely annihilated. If one is annihilated, then Jesus lied when he said punishment would be everlasting.

Jesus promises to all wicked people everlasting torment.

 

[wopik]

Malachi
4:1


For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Greek word for punishment:

kolasiV kolasis kol'-as-is

from 2849; penal infliction:--punishment, torment.

There is no torment after one is completely annihilated. If one is annihilated, then Jesus lied when he said punishment would be everlasting.

Jesus promises to all wicked people everlasting torment.

 

[wopik]

Jesus promises to all wicked people everlasting torment.

Jesus promises the wicked THE SECOND DEATH, which is ETERNAL PUNISH-MENT.


Rev. 21:8 - "THE SECOND DEATH"


Being DEAD FOREVER is ETERNAL punishment.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Jesus promises the wicked will be tormented "FOREVER"

 

[wopik]

that's only in religious pamphlets, not the Bible.

That's something you preachers think up.

 

[wopik]

Satan, on the other hand, is an immortal spirit being. The lake of fire and brimstone will not destroy an immortal being, but if he remains in that lake forever, he will be tormented eternally.


----------------


The punishment for those mortal humans who are condemned by God after the judgment is truly an eternal punishment because they will never again be alive and have no further chance at salvation, having spurned such salvation during their lives and even after they have been resurrected.

But the punishment will be swift and sure since the lake of fire will destroy every vestige of them in short fashion. It will not be an eternal punishing, but is eternal punishment.

 

[JFox1]

Originally posted by wopik:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

REVELATION 20:10.


In the KJV, you will notice that the word "are" is in italics. This means the word was supplied by the translators and is not in the original Greek.


This is the mistranslation that misleads, indicating the beast and the false prophet are still in the lake of fire at the time the devil and his demons are cast into this lake.

According to the Chronology of Revelation itself, both the beast and the false prophet were cast alive into the lake of fire at the beginning of God's thousand-year reign on the earth (Rev. 19:20). By merely using God's definition of what happens to human bodies when they are cast into fire, we can realize that they will be burned up just like so much fat on a hot stove (Psalm 37:20), and therefore the phrase in Revelation 20:10 should be translated "where the beast and the false prophet WERE."

Once they are burned up and now dead they are going to stay dead forever---this makes the punishment everlasting! </font>[/QUOTE]But Wopik, Rev. 20:10 says that they will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER. Their torment lasts forever. This would not be true if they were annihilated. Furthermore, you interpreted the passage in Revelation by the Book of Psalms. You should interpret the Old Testament in the light of the New Testament, not the other way around.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by wopik:

But the punishment will be swift and sure since the lake of fire will destroy every vestige of them in short fashion. It will not be an eternal punishing, but is eternal punishment.

Where did you get this new revelation from? Not the Bible!

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
--The devil, the beast, the false prophet: all three shall be tormented day and night, forever and ever. That much is clear.

And by implication:
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
All the unsaved will be included, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Why?
Revelation 20:5-6 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is mentioned because there is a second resurrection which, as the verse describes takes place after the thousand years is finisthed. A resurrected body is a glorified body that is able to stand before God. The unsaved will stand in a resurrected body (united together with their spirits from Hell), and be cast into the Lake of fire where they will be tormented (body and spirit together) day and night forever and ever.
DHK

 

[wopik]

But Wopik, Rev. 20:10 says that they will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER.

JFox1


My KJV omitts the word "they".


Isn't this verse speaking about Satan being cast into the lake of fire, and Satan being tormented day and night forever ?


It seems like an aside or a parenthetical about the beast and false prophet.


What's your take ?

 

[JFox1]

DHK and Standingfirm, the Seventh Day Adventists do have their own version of the Bible called the Clear Word Bible. I saw a copy of it once in a used book store. There were hundreds and hundreds of alterations in the text from Genesis to Revelation and in every book in between, all designed to fit Seventh Day Adventist teachings, including requiring the Church to observe the Sabbath on Saturday and not Sunday, soul sleep, annihilation of the wicked, etc.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

what's my take?

My take is what Christ Himself said in Matthew 25: the wicked shall be tormented forever.

 

[wopik]

REVELATION 20:10.

In the KJV, you will notice that the word "are" is in italics. This means the word was supplied by the translators and is not in the original Greek.

Does anyone disagree with this above quote ?


By merely using God's definition of what happens to human bodies when they are cast into fire, we can realize that they will be burned up just like so much fat on a hot stove (Psalm 37:20), and therefore the phrase in Revelation 20:10 should be translated "where the beast and the false prophet WERE."

 

[wopik]

standingfirm

My take is what Christ Himself said in Matthew 25: the wicked shall be tormented forever.

I see the words: "everlasting fire" and "everlasing punishment".

No "tormented forever".

 

[wopik]

The italicized words in the King James Bible are words that were added by the translators to help the reader. This is usually necessary when translating from one language to another because word meanings and idioms change. So, to produce a more readable translation, the King James translators (1604- 1611) added certain words to the Bible text.


However, to make sure that everyone understood that these words were not in the available manuscripts they set them in italics.


The King James translators were men of integrity so they put the added words in italics.


".....where the beast and false prophet are,..."


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=italicized+words+in+the+bible