Southern Baptist Worship Services

[Rev. Joshua]

I'm looking for exclusively SBC churches that are also liturgical. Considering the churches that I knew to be liturgical in the old SBC, I don't expect many of them are left.

In my experience, SBC/CBF churches give to the SBC because of what they remember it being, and the CBF because of what they hope it will be. I'm not sure that either reason accurately reflects reality, but it's theology - whaddya expect.

Joshua

 

[dfd2]

Rev Villines,

Did you look at the Founders web page yet? In the section for Founder friendly churches I found several churches that are SBC that state they use liturgical worship.

 

[SaggyWoman]

Every Baptist Church I attended has a different format for order of service, how many verses to sing, what kinds of songs to sing, how often to do the Lord's supper, you name it.

 

[Rev. Joshua]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dfd2:
Rev Villines,

Did you look at the Founders web page yet? In the section for Founder friendly churches I found several churches that are SBC that state they use liturgical worship.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


DFD2,

Just looked at it. Thanks a lot. I think it will be very helpful.

Joshua

 

[SPAM]

As long as we gather to worship Christ, the variance is generally left up to each church. In the church I just started in March, we take fellowship very seriously. The one thing I've experienced in the churches I've been part of is a lack of communication between folks inside the church. A routine of coming to church, singing songs and going home is not my idea of worship. We try our best to share the burdens of others and no better way than socializing within the church.

As far as maintaining godliness within the church in conversation, that should be every one's goal. I am sure not to do so is offensive to the Spirit anytime; especially at church. But, mandating it would lend to legalism in my opinion. It seems it would give one stringent patterns for worship and I feel that would hinder the Holy Spirit's work.

Just a thought.

Spam {Pastor Paul}

 

[ellis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rev. Joshua Villines:
I'm looking for exclusively SBC churches that are also liturgical. Considering the churches that I knew to be liturgical in the old SBC, I don't expect many of them are left.

In my experience, SBC/CBF churches give to the SBC because of what they remember it being, and the CBF because of what they hope it will be. I'm not sure that either reason accurately reflects reality, but it's theology - whaddya expect.

Joshua<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, now I need a bit more explanation. Not being Southern Baptist (though I attended a Southern Baptist-related college) I'm not familiar with CBF. Is that a branch of the SBC, or a split? I've read some of the arguments here but it is hard to discern things from this board, since it tends to be a place to vent rage on those who disagree rather than provide a lot of information.

My church is not Southern Baptist, it has always identified itself with being "independent and autonomous", though it is clearly not fundamentalist. Our traditional worship service (11:00 a.m. Sunday morning in the auditorium) begins with a fellowship time, followed by a liturgy. However, we also have a contemporary service going on in the fellowship hall at the same time, that is obviously not liturgical.

From my association with some Southern Baptists at the college I attended, I was not aware there were any churches in the SBC that were liturgical in their worship. Does that have something to do with what is happening in the SBC at present?

It would seem that my church has a lot in common with CBF churches, as described here. I've never really asked, and feel kind of silly admitting that I don't know who my own church, where I've attended since cradle roll, affiliates with. I will have to ask immediately. I'm not sure we are.

 

[Roy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ellis:
In my church, there is prelude music before the service. We have our "stand and greet" fellowship time before we do anything else. Fellowship is a biblical function of the church. Also, I do not see anything in the Bible which makes the gathering place for worship "sacred". We call ours an auditorium rather than a sanctuary. Why not fellowship for a few minutes as you greet your brothers and sisters in the name of the Lord? I've never felt that it disrupted or disturbed anything.

Of course, you must take into consideration that my church, while Baptist, is not of the "Southern" variety.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ellis - You can call your meeting place whatever you want to call it, but my preference is "sanctuary" when the conditions for Matthew 18:20 are met, in which two or three are gathered in the name of Jesus.
As far as fellowship goes, I believe that it is a Biblically prescribed social function of the church, and there is plenty of time for it throughout the week and before and after church services. The worship service is just a small fraction of time set aside to glorify the Almighty One, who spoke the universe into existence. Man is the only thing that He did not speak into existence; He actually used His hands to create man, and He breathed His own breath into man. When man fell from grace, God could have spoken the universe out of existence, along with fallen man, but because God is perfect and has perfect love, He chose to send His only begotten son into the world for a perfect sacrifice, which ultimately allowed fallen man to come to God and live with Him forever, not as guests, but as family.
But man wants a piece of the worship service for himself so that he can get around and say "howdy" to all his buddies at church.

[ September 24, 2001: Message edited by: roy ]

 

[donnA]

We have a handshaking time during our service also. When we were new at church, I had never even been to church as an adult and I was 27 then, I was extremely shy, to the point of just not talking to people because of fear. When everyone shook hands, and even shook ours, it made me feel so good, and accepted. Like I had a place to belong. It was important, and now I feel that it's important to others, to feel welcomed, and wanted. And thats part of the ministry we are to do, welcome others, let them know they have found a place to belong with God. It is stepping out of our own personal space sharing that with others. Opening ourselves up to others. And for me it has been a time of peace and healing these past 8 months with all the hugs and love I've recieved, poeple crying with me, at church. Now thats ministry. And if sharing of love for fellow believers, or those seeking isn't part of worship, following God, then what is it.

 

[dfd2]

Rev. Villines,

Here is a question that I would be curious to find te answer to. All of those churches on the Founders page are Reformed and Calvinistic. I would be curious as to know are there any SBC churches that hold to a liturgical style that dont hold to reformed doctrine.

1. Do you think that they go hand in hand?

2. If one holds to reformed doctrine they (not all) are more inclined to use liturgy as opposed to a church that is Arminian in doctrine?

 

[Roy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by katie:
We have a handshaking time during our service also. When we were new at church, I had never even been to church as an adult and I was 27 then, I was extremely shy, to the point of just not talking to people because of fear. When everyone shook hands, and even shook ours, it made me feel so good, and accepted. Like I had a place to belong. It was important, and now I feel that it's important to others, to feel welcomed, and wanted. And thats part of the ministry we are to do, welcome others, let them know they have found a place to belong with God. It is stepping out of our own personal space sharing that with others. Opening ourselves up to others. And for me it has been a time of peace and healing these past 8 months with all the hugs and love I've recieved, poeple crying with me, at church. Now thats ministry. And if sharing of love for fellow believers, or those seeking isn't part of worship, following God, then what is it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Katie - If all the hand-shaking and hugging is a structured part of the service, then it is merely ritualistic. If people greet one another in the parking lot or as they are making their way from Sunday school to worship service,stopping to introduce themselves and welcoming one another spontaneously, then it is more likely that those greetings are genuine and heart-felt. Also, when you are focused on those around you, as in the "run around and greet everyone" portion of the worship service, your attention is not on God. Who did you come to worship, fellow believers or God?

 

[donnA]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Katie - If all the hand-shaking and hugging is a structured part of the service, then it is merely ritualistic. If people greet one another in the parking lot or as they are making their way from Sunday school to worship service,stopping to introduce themselves and welcoming one another spontaneously, then it is more likely that those greetings are genuine and heart-felt. Also, when you are focused on those around you, as in the "run around and greet everyone" portion of the worship service, your attention is not on God. Who did you come to worship, fellow believers or God? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I guess you'd have to be there to know wouldn't you. Otherwise you wouldn't know. If you think love is ritualistic, I feel for you.

 

[Advocate]

SBC churches run the gambit on styles of worship...from liturgical to highly contemporary. Some clap, raise hands, and some still say "Amen" once in a while. I understand that in some SBC churches pastors wear robes and climb to elevated pulpits. Our worship style is blended with bright traditional and light contemporary.

 

[Nicole]

I'm with you on this one Sue. In my life I've attended regularly three types of churches: Southern Baptist, Freewill Baptist and Independant. In that order. I've been with Independant for my adult life and part of my later teens. Up until 3 yrs ago, the only churches I had attended were in Virginia where I grew up and each and every one of them did the greeting thing. The main purpose was to take a moment to introduce yourself to those around you, visitors and such because if someone visits that doesn't know anyone there, while the bulk of the members are enjoying fellowship in the corridors and such prior to service, the visitors kind of sneak in and find a seat. They would feel awkward standing in the hall not knowing anyone....most of the time. My church now doesn't do that though...I'm not sure why...never asked. When I first moved to the midwest though I looked in the phone book under Baptist churches and found one close to home. When we went, it really seemed closer to a catholic service. It was extremly ritualistic and stiff. I got nothing out of it at all. We went for a few weeks. I was so disheartend thinking that this was just the way baptist churches must be in the midwest. Thankfully, we attended our current church! The other was just too formal...there's no reason church cant be fun. To me, I'm completly comfortable there...it's like coming home to family. Obviously some people prefer the other way, and that's fine I can respect that, it's just that for ME personally, I don't get anything out of it. I can read the scripture myself at home...I go for the meat. For the detailed explanation of each passage and how it applies to me personally. I walk out of church each time more sure than the last that our pastor somehow has our home and my life under 24 hour survelience!!!lol But, I say whatever way fosters the most spiritual growth in your personal life...that's the way you should go.

 

[Roy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by katie:



I guess you'd have to be there to know wouldn't you. Otherwise you wouldn't know. If you think love is ritualistic, I feel for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How could you say such a hurtful thing to a sensitive guy like me? Love oozes from every pore of my entire being. But getting serious now, I think that Christian love and concern for lost souls is the reason I feel the way I do about worship services. The Holy Spirit, who is the third member of the God-head, works in the midst of worshippers. He comforts, uplifts, and convicts. Christians, being human, love comfort and uplifting, but convicting makes everyone squirm. All the touchy-feely things that we do in church, to me, appear to interfere with the work of the Holy Spirit. It is as if we aren't satisfied with the Holy Spirit's uplifting and comfort, so we will just create some of our own.
If we provide a fertile environment for Him to do His work during the worship service, hearts will be touched with conviction, and people will come to Christ. Now, not all who feel the conviction will respond positively. Many will leave the church and may never come back, and I think that is why many church leaders try to stymie the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit, because they don't want to have anyone drop out.
There is a very unsettling poem at this web site here http://www.vcyamerica.org/modernist.html It talks about a reality that many of us don't like to consider.
Although we may never see eye to eye on the greeting thing please understand that I don't carry hostile feelings toward people who feel differently than I do.

[ September 29, 2001: Message edited by: roy ]

 

[Jonathan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by roy:
I guess I am fishing around to see if Southern Baptists feel that I am off base with my thinking or if a good many feel the same way I feel. In a large number of Baptist churches, in the area where I live, the worship service begins with a song or two. Then it is like time out is called, and everyone gets out of the pews and wanders around, shaking as many hands as they can, hugging necks, or whatever, I guess for the purpose of demonstrating that everyone in that congregation is friendly.

Back in the 60’s, when I was a young teen attending church in Arkansas, I heard a
preacher advocate the idea that the worship service belongs to God. He said that
everyone should do their socializing before entering the sanctuary or whenever the service ended. He even went so far as to say that when in the sanctuary, prior to the start of the service, worshipers should prepare their hearts for the service by keeping all discussion on a spiritual level. If anyone felt the need to talk, he said to discuss the Sunday school lesson, look at the bulletin and discuss the sermon topic, or just discuss something from the Bible.

Even when I was a teen-ager, I felt that preacher was right on the money, and I still feel the same way today although it is obviously not a popular viewpoint with most Baptist congregations that I have seen in recent years.

Does anyone care to share a thought or oppinion on this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Our church does something similar to what you describe.

1. We will have some opening singing.
2. The pastor (or another staff minister) will welcome everyone and make a special welcome to guests. The ushers bring a welcome packet (with an information sheet for the guest to fill out and drop in the offering plate) to the guest.
3. Then, as the choir/praise team sings a chorus, everyone greets everyone (especially the now identified guests).
4. We then enter an extended time of worship together.

Does the worship time belong to God? Yes but no more and no less than any other time that we spend together as a church. Can God be glorified by the greeting of a guest (which helps to begin the process of relationship)? Sure.

Be very careful of legalism in this matter!

 

[Charlie the Chosen]

I grew up a preachers son in an independant baptist church. My father died when I was a teen and I drifted in and out of church until I got married. I was saved August 29, 1995 in a southern baptist church, and there I am still to this day. We do have a time of greeting after the anouncements. NEVER have I heard anyone say that it made them feel uncomfortable, and it sure ain't done to let visitors know we are friendly. We have very few visitors that we don't already know some way, being from a very small community. Although we do have a campground on the river bank close by, we get some visitors and they have come back time and again to visit. They go on and on about the openess and freedom they feel and how friendly we are, and said they have gone back to their own churches and started this very same thing. I can say myself, I have never felt more welcome anywhere. I can only guess we have a genuiness about us that others can see and feel. We don't have to go telling others how nice friendly little baptists we are. As far as ritualistic, that ain't us. We have order, but it's liable to get changed, if need be. We are the only white church in town. And only one black down the street. Both being baptist. We also pass out visitors cards and ask them to put their names on it, so we can go visit them later. We meet at 9:30 every sunday morning to have prayer for our pastor, for the lost, and for visitors. So we do have order, not rituals.

 

[Charlie the Chosen]

P.S. Without the work of the Holy Spirit within us, we wouldn't be friendly. Being friendly, nice, good or whatever is not traits of natural man. So therefore, being friendly and greeting others is the Holy Spirit at work in us. Something I'm not gonna quinch! Guess it ain't for all!!

 

[Roy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Charlie the Chosen:
So therefore, being friendly and greeting others is the Holy Spirit at work in us. Something I'm not gonna quinch! Guess it ain't for all!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It sounds like you have a wonderful church, Charlie. No ifs, ands, or buts about it, and I am sincere when I say that. However, can you truthfully say that it is the work of the Holy Spirit, when people greet one another because that set-aside moment in the worship service has arrived, whereby everyone takes liberty to greet one another.

 

[Charlie the Chosen]

Roy, there are times when conflict arises between God's children, and more than once this greeting before the sermon, has caused others to seek forgiveness from one another. Especially having a small church and many related, problems arise quite easily. This forgiving spirit has allowed them to hear and receive the message, otherwise they probably would have set there and stewed over the problem. Being so small, problems between 2 individuals can easily become family problems.

 

[Roy]

That's good, Charlie. That particular part of the service obviously has a distinct spiritual value in your church.

It almost caused some conflict at my mom's church, in Louisiana, when some ole gal got carried away and kissed my mom on the mouth. Mama wanted to bust her head for it, but repented of that thought, out of respect for God's house. As for me, I like to hang out in the vestibule until the hand-shake ritual is over with, then go in and find a seat.