Southern Baptists and Dispensationalism

[OldRegular]

And where is this mystical secret rapture? I can hardly imagine a great return of the Lord with trumpets sounding cold be secret, along with the lifting up of so many people from the earth, and the graves...............that is literal interpretation?

I just dug out my old Scofield Bible and I just can't read too much at once. It is like reading a fairy tale.

Cheers,

Jim

And airplanes falling out of the sky. And cars without drivers. And teachers leaving classrooms. And . and. and.!!!!!

 

[Pastor Larry]

And where is this mystical secret rapture?

In the Bible. You probably know the arguments, Jim. Don't be snarky about it. But I never refer to it as mystical or secret.

I just dug out my old Scofield Bible and I just can't read too much at once. It is like reading a fairy tale.

Me either. But you are educated enough to know that dispensationalism doesn't depend on Scofield, or at least you should be.

You can do better than this, Jim.

 

[Pastor Larry]

The kingdom offered was not an earthly Messianic Kingdom and no one on this forum has offered any Scriptural proof that it was.

And what kind of kingdom do you think it was? The kingdom is described in the OT, and there is unequivocally earthly. It already existed, and Christ is the next king of it.

Answer me this: Who are the people producing the fruit of the Kingdom?

No one right now. That is a reference to end time Israel who will, just as God promised, repent and believe the Messiah (cf. Zech 12, among more passages than can be posted here).

I would write this sentence as follows: Being a dispensationalist as you are, you are forced to read passages in certain ways in order to conform to your beliefs, and that is always a dangerous way to do theology.

You can write it if you wish, but that won't make it true. As I have said, I have yet to see dispensationalism refuted from the Scriptures. Consider your own efforts here and how very little Scripture they use. I am not impressed by it.

No where is this as clear as the dispensationalist twisting of the teaching of John 5:28, 29.

How so? You haven't shown any twisting, and you didn't respond to the evidence I posted against your position.

 

[Amy.G]

Could someone list the promises made to Israel? Chapter and verse please.

 

[OldRegular]

And what kind of kingdom do you think it was? The kingdom is described in the OT, and there is unequivocally earthly. It already existed, and Christ is the next king of it.

That is simply not true. Jesus Christ did not offer a carnal kingdom but a Spiritual Kingdom which many Jews accepted, the nucleus of the New Testament Church.

No one right now. That is a reference to end time Israel who will, just as God promised, repent and believe the Messiah (cf. Zech 12, among more passages than can be posted here).

Wrong again. The people, or nation as KJV states, is the Church.

You can write it if you wish, but that won't make it true. As I have said, I have yet to see dispensationalism refuted from the Scriptures. Consider your own efforts here and how very little Scripture they use. I am not impressed by it.

You won't believe the Scripture that is presented. Why can you not show one passage of Scripture where jesus christ definitively offers an earthly Messianic Kingdom to the Jews. You can't, period, because it does not exist.

How so? You haven't shown any twisting, and you didn't respond to the evidence I posted against your position.

I haven't seen any real evidence posted. Admit it. John 5:28,29 interpreted literally or at "face value" as Ryrie insists destroys the dispensational insistence on the rapture, the earthly millennium, and all dispensational error.

One of the worst implications of dispensationalism is that it states that the Church was left ignorant for 1800 years. One of the worst claims that dispensationalism makes is that the Church is guilty of robbing Israel of its promises. Very Sad!:tear:

Why don't you address the point made in the OP about the Church as defined by the Southern Baptist Convention? That refutes dispensationalism and you cannot deny it.

 

[OldRegular]

Could someone list the promises made to Israel? Chapter and verse please.

Amy

As I told JD regarding his post on ecclesiology in dispensationalism. Don't hold your breath!:love2:

 

[Pastor Larry]

That is simply not true. Jesus Christ did not offer a carnal kingdom but a Spiritual Kingdom which many Jews accepted, the nucleus of the New Testament Church.

Carnal? If by that you mean earthly, then again, I say read the OT. It is clear that the kingdom is an earthly kingdom, complete with cities and land boundaries, animals, trees, crops, and the like.

Wrong again. The people, or nation as KJV states, is the Church.

The KJV doesn't say that. The kingdom was promised to Israel, and unless God is a liar, it will be given to Israel.

You won't believe the Scripture that is presented.

Yes, I will.

Why can you not show one passage of Scripture where jesus christ definitively offers an earthly Messianic Kingdom to the Jews. You can't, period, because it does not exist.

It is all over the bible.

I haven't seen any real evidence posted. Admit it.

Go back and read. I pointed out several passage where "hour" obviously does not mean "at one particular instant." I pointed out clearly that the first resurrection takes place in stages, and precedes the second.

John 5:28,29 interpreted literally or at "face value" as Ryrie insists destroys the dispensational insistence on the rapture, the earthly millennium, and all dispensational error.

No it doesn't. That's nonsense.

One of the worst implications of dispensationalism is that it states that the Church was left ignorant for 1800 years.

I don't think so at all. There were people who held to the dispensational premises all through church history.

One of the worst claims that dispensationalism makes is that the Church is guilty of robbing Israel of its promises. Very Sad!

It is sad, but God promised Israel that he would restore them to the land, either he will or he lied. Which do you think?

Why don't you address the point made in the OP about the Church as defined by the Southern Baptist Convention?

That refutes dispensationalism and you cannot deny it.

I am not a Southern Baptist, and I thought the OP was pretty silly. Truth is you can "prove" or "disprove" anything by selective quotes from people who were wrong.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Could someone list the promises made to Israel? Chapter and verse please.

Read the OT. They are all over. But I will cite a few just for kicks:

Jeremiah 31:31-40 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." 35 Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for light by day And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; The LORD of hosts is His name: 36 "If this fixed order departs From before Me," declares the LORD, "Then the offspring of Israel also will cease From being a nation before Me forever." 37 Thus says the LORD, "If the heavens above can be measured And the foundations of the earth searched out below, Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel For all that they have done," declares the LORD. 38 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when the city will be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 "The measuring line will go out farther straight ahead to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah. 40 "And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD; it will not be plucked up or overthrown anymore forever."

Micah 2:12-13 "I will surely assemble all of you, Jacob, I will surely gather the remnant of Israel. I will put them together like sheep in the fold; Like a flock in the midst of its pasture They will be noisy with men. 13 "The breaker goes up before them; They break out, pass through the gate and go out by it. So their king goes on before them, And the LORD at their head."

Zechariah 12:8-10 "In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the one who is feeble among them in that day will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the LORD before them. 9 "And in that day I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

Amos 9:14-15 "Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit. 15 "I will also plant them on their land, And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

I could go on and on, but that will suffice for starters.

 

[Revmitchell]

I took nothing out of context. Contingency is the state of being contingent on something which is defined below. You are spinning your wheels Mr. Mitchell!

.

Based on your short snipet we have no idea if this is true. And even if PL is right broad brushing everyone one is just as disingenuous as posting your little snipet.

 

[Amy.G]

Read the OT. They are all over. But I will cite a few just for kicks:

I'm sorry. I should have asked for the promises that have yet to be fulfilled.

 

[jonathan.borland]

Israel seems to play a pretty big role in Revelation. Is that the legitimate Israel, or an illegitimate one?

 

[Amy.G]

I have a copy of the Baptist Faith and Message (1963?) and there is no mention of the rapture or millenium in it.

This is what is says regarding "last things".

God, in His own time and in His own way, will bring the world to its appropriate end. According to His promise, Jesus Christ will return personally and visibly in glory to the earth; the dead will be raised; and Christ will judge all men in righteousness. The unrighteous will be consigned to Hell, the place of everlasting punishment. The righteous in their resurrected and glorified bodies will receive their reward and will dwell forever in Heaven with the Lord.

 

[Pastor Larry]

I'm sorry. I should have asked for the promises that have yet to be fulfilled

Oh, okay. Here you go:

Jeremiah 31:31-40 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." 35 Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for light by day And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; The LORD of hosts is His name: 36 "If this fixed order departs From before Me," declares the LORD, "Then the offspring of Israel also will cease From being a nation before Me forever." 37 Thus says the LORD, "If the heavens above can be measured And the foundations of the earth searched out below, Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel For all that they have done," declares the LORD. 38 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when the city will be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 "The measuring line will go out farther straight ahead to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah. 40 "And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD; it will not be plucked up or overthrown anymore forever."

Micah 2:12-13 "I will surely assemble all of you, Jacob, I will surely gather the remnant of Israel. I will put them together like sheep in the fold; Like a flock in the midst of its pasture They will be noisy with men. 13 "The breaker goes up before them; They break out, pass through the gate and go out by it. So their king goes on before them, And the LORD at their head."

Zechariah 12:8-10 "In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the one who is feeble among them in that day will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the LORD before them. 9 "And in that day I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

Amos 9:14-15 "Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit. 15 "I will also plant them on their land, And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

I could go on and on, but that will suffice for starters.

 

[Pastor Larry]

I have a copy of the Baptist Faith and Message (1963?) and there is no mention of the rapture or millenium in it.

This is what is says regarding "last things".

There has always been a latitude among Baptists about eschatology. That's why these guys coming along and attacking dispensationalism is disturbing. Jim says he doesn't think eschatology should be a test of fellowship. Apparently he has higher standards for mocking though.

I wouldn't break fellowship over it, though it would have some implications for fellowship in some areas.

 

[Allan]

I have a copy of the Baptist Faith and Message (1963?) and there is no mention of the rapture or millenium in it.

This is what is says regarding "last things".

Amy, this is written to allow for a variation of views that 'in the least' confirm what is what is written in some manner. It is not written as a declation of one particular view.

 

[Jim1999]

My dear brother pastor Larry, you are prolly correct that I know more than I am saying. I have been all through the numerous debates over eschatology. I grew up in the Church of England with historic premill,,when I returned to London from Wales, I joined the Plymoth Brethren, the fathers of dispensationalism,,you kw the old boys, charts and all, I then went to the Baptist Union because I wanted to enter ministry. I was still historical premill,,mxes of dispensationalism. I came to Canada and was introduced to amill to which I rebelled, but later came to realize it whilst Lorraine Boetner was teaching post millennialism! Weird, what?

I think I know what most the schools teach, but I can't really get too worked up about that aspect of eschatology..the study of last things. A few of my churches were dispensational and I managed to live in peace with them...there was so much more to preach and besides they didn't even know when I crossed over to amillennial thought in a sermon. I decided then that these debates are meant for the clergy.

Yes, I am playing a bit. Sorry.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Pastor Larry]

Jim,

Thanks for your comments in your last post. I really don't get bent out of shape about it. I have some pretty solid views (as you might can tell). In the end, I am not all that concerned about what people believe, though I think it is important.

This debate is kind of like Calvinism to some degree. People trot out verses (like John5:28,29) as if the other side had never heard of it and will suddenly be stumped and convert. Truth is, we have interacted with all those verses and have tried to come to an honest understanding of them.

It gets a little heated, which doesn't bother me. It's just part of life. The good thing about being pre-trib is that I am the only one who change my position if I am wrong.

 

[Amy.G]

Thanks guys. I don't think we should break fellowship over this subject either. I know the Lord is coming. I will spend probably the rest of my life trying to understand all the scriptures concerning it. Until then, I am but a lowly student. :tongue3:

 

[Allan]

To add a few more to Pastor Larry's post about unfulfilled promises:

New Covenant reference to Israel's future

Romans 11: 25-27 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of Gentiles has come in. And so will all Israel be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

The Messiah will have compassion on Israel and save them in a time of peril

Isaiah 11:10-17 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner, for the peoples; the nations will rally to him... He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isaiah 30:19-26 O people of Zion who live in Jerusalem, you will weep no more. How gracious he will be when you cry for help.

Isaiah 52:1-3 Awake, awake, O Zion, clothe yourself with strength. Put on your garments of splendor, O Jerusalem, the holy city. The uncircumcised and defiled will not enter you again. Shake off your dust; rise up, sit enthroned, O Jerusalem. Free yourself from the chains on your neck, O captive Daughter of Zion. For this is what the LORD says: "You were sold for nothing, and without money you will be redeemed."

Isaiah 54:6-8 The LORD will call you back as if you were a wife deserted and distressed in spirit-- a wife who married young, only to be rejected," says your God. "For a brief moment I abandoned you, but with deep compassion I will bring you back. In a surge of anger I hid my face from you for a moment, but with everlasting kindness I will have compassion on you," says the LORD your Redeemer.

Hosea 2:14-16 "Therefore I am now going to allure her; I will lead her into the desert and speak tenderly to her. There I will give her back her vineyards, and will make the Valley of Achor a door of hope. There she will sing as in the days of her youth, as in the day she came up out of Egypt. "In that day," declares the LORD, "you will call me 'my husband'; you will no longer call me 'my master.'

Zephaniah 3:14-17 Sing, O Daughter of Zion; shout aloud, O Israel! Be glad and rejoice with all your heart, O Daughter of Jerusalem! The LORD has taken away your punishment, he has turned back your enemy. The LORD, the King of Israel, is with you; never again will you fear any harm. On that day they will say to Jerusalem, "Do not fear, O Zion; do not let your hands hang limp. The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing."

Zechariah 8:13-15 As you have been an object of cursing among the nations, O Judah and Israel, so will I save you, and you will be a blessing. Do not be afraid, but let your hands be strong." This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Just as I had determined to bring disaster upon you and showed no pity when your fathers angered me," says the LORD Almighty, "so now I have determined to do good again to Jerusalem and Judah. Do not be afraid.


Zechariah 8:23 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you."

The Messiah will bring world peace

Isaiah 2:4 He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.

Israel's enemies will be removed

Isaiah 33:17-20 17 Your eyes will see the king in his beauty and view a land that stretches afar. In your thoughts you will ponder the former terror: "Where is that chief officer? Where is the one who took the revenue? Where is the officer in charge of the towers?" You will see those arrogant people no more, those people of an obscure speech, with their strange, incomprehensible tongue. Look upon Zion, the city of our festivals; your eyes will see Jerusalem, a peaceful abode, a tent that will not be moved; its stakes will never be pulled up, nor any of its ropes broken.

Isaiah 41:11-12 "All who rage against you will surely be ashamed and disgraced; those who oppose you will be as nothing and perish. Though you search for your enemies, you will not find them. Those who wage war against you will be as nothing at all.

The Messiah will dwell in Zion (Jerusalem)

Isaiah 2:3 Many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Zechariah 8:3 This is what the LORD says: "I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem will be called the City of Truth, and the mountain of the LORD Almighty will be called the Holy Mountain.

The Messiah will be king over all the earth and only the God of Israel will be worshipped

Zechariah 14:1-9 A day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided among you. I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him. On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime--a day known to the LORD. When evening comes, there will be light. On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, in summer and in winter. The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

Israel will repent when visited by the Messiah Yeshua (Jesus)

Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be great, like the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, and all the rest of the clans and their wives. "On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.

The Davidic Kingdom restored to Israel through the Messiah

Ezekial 37:24-25 "'My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever.

Amos 9:11 "In that day I will restore David's fallen tent. I will repair its broken places, restore its ruins, and build it as it used to be.

Micah 4:8 As for you, O watchtower of the flock, O stronghold of the Daughter of Zion, the former dominion will be restored to you; kingship will come to the Daughter of Jerusalem."

World wide celebration of the Feast of Tablenacles

Zechariah 14:16-17 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain.

These do not include the promises that have been fulfilled to the Nation - such as them eventually becoming a nation again, and they will become a nation in one day.

First Part...

 

[Allan]

Since we know the early church, for the first 400+ years, was in the vast majority pre-mill or Chiliasism view (Christ's returning to rule an earthly Kingdom for 1000 years).

Here are some names of those of the pre-mil view from our early church fathers and a link to the information.
The first 9 are influential men for the first 300 years according to Chafer:
1. Andrew
2. Peter
3. Philip
4. Thomas
5. James
6. John
7. Matthew
8. Aristio
9. John the Presbyter

Peters states regarding the above: "These all lived between A.D. 1-100; John, it is supposed -- so Mosheim, etc. -- died about A.D. 100. (All these are cited by Papias, who, according to Irenaeus, was one of John's hearers, and intimate with Polycarp. John is also expressly mentioned by Justin. Now this reference to the apostles agrees with the facts that we have proven: (a) that the disciples of Jesus did hold the Jewish views of the Messianic reign in the first part of this century, and (b) that, instead of discarding them, they linked them with the Sec. Advent)."

FIRST CENTURY:
10. Clement of Rome A.D. 40-100
11. Barnabas A.D 40-100
12 Hermas A.D 40-150
13 Ignatius A.D. 50-115
14 Polycarp A.D. 70-167
15. Papias A.D. 80-163

SECOND CENTURY:
1. Pothinus A.D. 87-177
2. Justin Martyr A.D. 100-168
3. Melito A.D. 100-170
4. Hegisippus A.D. 130-190
5. Tatian A.D. 130-190
6. Irenaeus A.D. 140-202
7. The Churches of Vienne and Lyons - a letter A.D. 177
8. Tertulian A.D. 150-220
9. Hippolytus A.D. 160-240
10 Apollinaris A.D. 150-200

THIRD CENTURY:
1. Cyprian A.D. 200-258
2. Commodian A.D. 200-270
3. Nepos A.D. 230-280
4. Coracion A.D. 230-280
5. Victorinus A.D. 240-303
6. Methodius A.D. 250-311
7. Lactantius A.D. 240-330

In the THIRD CENTURY there were only 4 who apposed this view:
1. Caius (or Gaius), wrote about A.D. 210
2, Clemens Alexandrinus, died A.D. 202, great influence on Origin
3. Origin A.D. 185-254
4. Dionysius A.D. 190-265

Here is Chafer also:

AS TO PREMILLENNIALISM BEING A NEW THEORY:

It is a common practice with some theologians to brand chiliasm (premillennialism) as a modern theory, not remembering that, in its restored form, even justification by faith is comparatively a modern truth. Both justification by faith and chiliasm are taught in the New Testament and were therefore the belief of the early church. These doctrines, like all other essential truths, went into obscurity during the dark Ages. The Reformers did not restore all features of doctrine and along with justification by faith they retained the Romish notion that the church is the kingdom, fulfilling the Davidic covenant, and appointed to conquer the world by bringing it under the authority of the church. (Chafer, Vol. 4, Eschatology, Introduction. pg. 257)

Historically, the doctrine of Pre-mil was cast aside when Christianity became a world power.

This would appear to indicate that this was the apostles own teaching since it was so prevellent a view since the inception of the Church.

It is of note what Chafer stated Here:

Chafer On The Allegorical Method Of Interpretation Of The Prophetic Scriptures:

"In sheer fantastical imagination this method surpasses Russellism, Eddyism, and Seventh Day Adventism, since the plain, grammatical meaning of language is abandoned, and simple terms are diverted in their course and end in anything the interpreter wishes" (Eschatology, Vol. 4 p. 281-282).