Sovereign in Salvation

Johnp,

James, the half-brother of our Lord, has told us not to curse other men or women because even the sinner is ‘. . . made after the similitude of God,’ not Adam and Eve as you wrongfully think. Review the verse for yourself. I know you don’t know where this is found or you would not utter your unbiblical ideas.

The Greek word, similitude, is {homoiosin} meaning after the resemblance or similarity of the Lord God.

I do not recommend any translation in particular. This may help you. The New Century Version offers this explanation.

‘We use our tongues to praise our Lord and Father, but then we curse people, whom God made like Himself.’

In theology we call this the ‘image of God in man’. {or woman}

The writer of the book said under Divine authorship that Christians should not bless at some times and curse people at other times. He says, Brethren these things ought not to be.

The servant of God, James, did not say that only those who are ‘born again’ are created in the image of God, but even those alleged, Totally Depraved sinners who you believe do not have the ability to understand the plan of salvation. God the Spirit always attends the Word of God and sinners do understand their lack of spiritual life. If they did not understand, the Lord could not hold them accountable at the Great White Throne Judgment.

You will find this truth in James chapter three.

I know you will still hold to your opinion because it is not easy to bend your mind and spirit to the truth coming from God the Holy Spirit. But there is hope . . .

Even if you still believe your idea, please, select one of your translations and copy it down for the rest of us. Maybe the repetition will help you come to the truth.

Regards,
Ray

 

What specifically do you believe is the Gift of God?
Is it an Attribute such as Grace?
Is Faith which God does not have to Give.
or is it Salvation which is God's alone to give?

 

Johnp,

Don't you know that every species bears its own, and not that of another species? What is canine is canine, bovine is bovine, feline is feline. Even among those groups there are distinctions. Among Canines there are Dalmations, pit bulls, chihuahuas, poodles, etc, in the bovine there are Herefords, Angus, Brahman, Jersey, Guernsy, Holstein, etc., but there are no "pitbull-herefords", nor "Angus-poodles", but I would have thought you knew that.

If we are in God's image we have the same essence as that of God. Jesus tells us in John 4:24, "God is spirit, and those who worship must worship in spirit and truth." What is the image of Spirit if it is not spirit? Every human is spirit residing in a body of flesh. That spirit works with what it is given. For most of mankind the spirit is fed Garbage, music with disharmony and disparaging words. Constant bombardment with images from TV of death, corruption, infidelity, corrupt sexuality, immorality of all kinds, fraud deceit,e etc. A steady diet of those images desensitizes one's spirit, and significantly reduces the biblical fruit of the spirit, in the same manner the pornography reduces the person to the status of animals always lusting, following the urgings of the flesh (which is nothing more than the spirit handing over control to the flesh).

But the spirit that is submitted to God produces the fruit that Paul tells us about.

Paul teaches about "the fruits of the spirit". That spirit is in us and it is with our human spirit that we produce "the fruit of the spirit". What are the fruits of the spirit if not, that which is true of us? Paul Teaches of "the fruit of the Spirit as being love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, trustfulness, gentleness and self-control; no law can touch such things as these."? The reason no law can touch them is, they are ALL attributes (something true) of the one possessing them, and they are the result of a "good spirit", a reborn spirit, because they all come out of the human spirit that has been submitted to the Christ. Those attributes reside within the spirit of man, but are only manifested by man when man has been set free in Christ.

 

West,Outwest,

True. Good post. Yes, we are in the image of God though it has been compromised by Original Sin.

Sinners can and do respond to the simplicity of the Gospel.

 

Wes.

The clear teaching of scripture!

What an amazing piece of work. Where in scripture does it say that time does not exist for God? Nowhere is a clue. Where does scripture say that God created time? Nowhere is a clue. Where does scripture say time was created for man? Nowhere is a clue.
Please don't corrupt the clear teaching of Scripture because of your false ideas concerning God and time.
What are you on man? And can I have some.

Your post posted 13 March, 2005 01:45 is meaningless.

"Show one example of natural man where it is said that he is in the likeness of God and you win."
Can't say fairer than that old man. You could cede me my point you know you are on a loser.

johnp.

 

Ray.
"Show one example of natural man where it is said that he is in the likeness of God and you win."

Does he?

I like it! Start the day as you mean to go on.

JAS 3:9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. 10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. 11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.

'Similitude' is a fine word, a bit old around the edges but within range.

Well they were the ones James was talking to. They were fighting among themselves so James tells them off.
JAS 4:1 What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you?
The people outside the Church are not coming into this conversation whatsoever. James is correcting the Church and it's behaviour within the Church and nothing more.
And they are Christians who are being tranformed. 2 Cor 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
Why do Christians need transforming into the likeness if they are already in His likeness?

JUDE 1:12 These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm--shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted--twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

But to us;
JUDE 1:24 To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy-- 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

johnp.

 

johnp,
I have shown you, but here it is again:

Please NOTICE this is a deliberate, Premeditated ACT OF CREATION BY GOD OF A CREATED BEING IN HIS IMAGE, LIKENESS, SIMILITUDE. Nothing that God has created has changed that Image from what God made it to be! SIN HAS NOT CHANGED THE IMAGE, ONLY THE BEHAVIOR OF THE IMAGE!

 

johnp,

Can't find a post with this date/time group. Perhaps you could post the leading paragraph.

By the way did you set the time differential in your profile? At the top of the page select "my profile" then in the next page select "edit profile" then in the next page select "time adjustment" Since I am west of the BBS, my time is set to -3, that is BBS time minus 3 hours. Since you are east of the BBS, yours would be +5 hours or BBS Plus 5 hours (according to the time zone you are in) then save your changes.

 

SIN HAS NOT CHANGED THE IMAGE, ONLY THE BEHAVIOR OF THE IMAGE! It is not our image that is being transformed, it is the behavior of our image that is being conformed to the behavior of the one in whose image we are made.

All mankind is made in the image of God, we are "equals" in that image. Sin, since it entered the world thru the first man, has changed the behavior of ALL mankind from Adam to now. Jesus, who is God the Son, and in whose image we are made, is the one man (God-Man) thru whom redemption is made. He offered himself up a sacrifice to atone for SIN, ALL sin...even the sin that ELI's house wallowed in and refused to repent of, thus, ALL men do not face death for sin but can through belief (faith) in even the name of Jesus, pass from death and have everlasting life.

No, Eli's house did not recognize the name of Jesus, it had not been revealed to them as yet, nor did they repent from their cursing God because Eli did not correct them! Thus there is no atonement for them because cursing God is Blasphemy, and Since God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, their blasphemy is of the Holy Spirit, the sin for which there is no pardon.

And yours may be just as great as that of Eli's house because you deny that Jesus is God the son, in your repititious asking of the question about All men being drawn. If you do know in your spirit that Jesus is God the son, you would not continue to persue that vain line of questioning.
But no, you are trying to deliberately trip up, those who's faith and belief is that Jesus is God the son who by being lifted up on the cross has indeed drawn all men to him, but not necessarily "in Him" or "He in them".

I know of no man who is not attracted to the story of one man giving up his life for the lives of all mankind. We, all nations, thus all mankind, honor those who through self sacrifice have indeed prevented the deaths of others. We revere them as Hero's from among us. Yes, even merry ol' England does the same.

 

Wes.

GE 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
GE 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

And what is that image? Could it be spiritual or physical? If it is spiritual then the fall destroyed that image. GE 5:3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.
Instead of man now being in the image of God they were created in the image of man. What was that image? Was it spiritual or was it physical?
I believe you think that this likeness and image is physical but that would make no sense according to the verse preceeding it. GE 5:1 This is the written account of Adam's line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man. "
Then He says;
GE 5:3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.
Do you really try to go from the spiritual to the physical? Why, what is the reason?
The image of God was lost at the fall otherwise there would be no need to transform us into the likeness of God once we are born again. 2 Cor 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
JAS 4:1 What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you? James is talking to the Church. The Church are the ones being transformed into the likeness of God.
Your argument is wrong.

This will at least stop you from trying to split the difference between likeness and image this time.

Thanks for the info. I have adjusted the time thing but now I can't find the post in question.

No we are being transformed not conformed but if you have it your way we are being transformed into what we are or conformed into what we are? Our behaviour will change when we are born again because our spirits are made alive and we are reconnected to the Lord. But even as the born again Children of God we are still not in His image and will not be in His image, but being transformed into that image, until we are called into the air to stand where no man can stand together with our brothers and sisters in the image and likeness of the One we are to spend forever with.

johnp.

 

Wes.

God said;
14 Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' "
Wes says;
He offered himself up a sacrifice to atone for SIN, ALL sin...even the sin that ELI's house wallowed in and refused to repent of...
You are the DDiv then I see? 1 Sam 3:14 Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' "
Oh yes you did God cause Wes says!

He did what he could. He rebuked them but they would not listen to him. Why did they not listen to him? They ...did not listen to their father's rebuke, for it was the LORD's will to put them to death. 1 Sam 2:25.

Jesus died for all sins or just some? You are into limited atonement if blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has not been atoned for! Watch your step I can see a fall coming.

Strange thing to say. Is this because you have the wrong story? It is your idea that He gave His life for the whole of mankind even if you have to gouge your eyes out so that Eli the blind man can't show you the truth. But it is not you that blinds you it is the Lord Almighty that blinds you and stops up your ears so that you will not see the light or hear the truth. Why? You should ask Him yourself you are in great danger.

Indeed but merry old Englanders don't like the idea either that Jesus only died for some thus becoming a bad smell to your delicate noses. Not such a team player for us is He when He raises a man up just to destroy Him! Not such a nice chap now 'a'?

I wallowed like a pig! But this is so wrong, to think that Eli's house had done something that God could not forgive but that He did not want to is more to the point. They ...did not listen to their father's rebuke, for it was the LORD's will to put them to death. 1 Sam 2:25. God is Sovereign. The Lord Jesus Christ who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped... PHP 2:6.
...in your repititious asking of the question about All men being drawn. It's only repititious because you won't answer the point. Did He or did He not draw all men? To say no as you must means that you lose your argument and death is better than admitting God is right and you are wrong. He offered himself up a sacrifice to atone for SIN, ALL sin...even the sin that ELI's house wallowed in and refused to repent of...
Even after God says He has sworn an oath that He would not atone for Eli you say He did. And you have the bare faced nerve to call me? Of course you have. If you can do it to God who the Hell am I? 1 Sam 3:14 Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' "

johnp.

 

Even after God says He has sworn an oath that He would not atone for Eli you say He did.

That should read;

Even after God says He has sworn an oath that He would not atone for Eli's house you say He did.

johnp.

 

Johnp,

I'm surprised that your Calvinists buddies have not set you straight as to every human being--being born in the image of God.

You twist Scripture more than any other human being that I have known. Keep on holding on to your 5 pts. and you will do it all the time.

You are too far off the scope to even help, my friend.

Ray

 

No, that is not what I said! I said that Jesus atoned for the world including the sin that Eli's house is guilty of, which is cursing God. I did not say that Eli's house was forgiven, and indeed it was not because they refused to repent, not because the sin they were doing was not forgiveable. Since then however, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has become the unforgiveable sin thanks to Eli!

 

JohnP;
You've been harping about Eli for a month now. Eli is not a great support for Calvinism because Eli was of Israel and you're claim that He was lost. Well so much for not being able to fall huh. So much for election guaranteeing your Salvation huh. In your ignorance you keep bringing up what destroys your own false Calvinist doctrine. By all means keep it up you are only proving the position you're against.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Ray.

That an interesting thing to say. Do you think they think I'm wrong?

I will twist that into a backhanded compliment. You mean I prove you wrong more than anyone else? I think that you may be exaggerating a little but I must say that was some hole you fell down a little while ago if you remember. Not me really just you boasting of your Greek that was not up to much.

A strange sentence but I will take it in the spirit it was given in and I will reply that you will not chose what I shall do my God decides that for all of us.

No one is too far of the scope for God to help.

johnp.